Well fuck you then!






















and Happy New Year!

 

Yea, as you can see I'm much better now. Aparently boost will do that to you. I think most of ny frustration was with being the first one. I just ran into problem after problem with no warning in advance. For example the oil drain line will neve clear the driveshaft heatshield. It has to be removed to get the drain line away from the turbo. But once the turbo is in and bolted down, it becomes a 3 hour affair to remove it, reclock it, and remove the heatshield.

 

It's possible that you can pick up a little extra cash once you are assured about the tune and reliability.... After assessing everything mentally about the install, coming up with what can be done that can improve, and simplify it followed by lots of road testing to insure it's close to bullet proof, the do the dyno run thing as the final pitch to market and prosper from all of the hell you have gone through...... This is what a dedicated automobile enthusiast can do in the way of a modification.... I can understand his frustration when while going to all of the extremes that were necessary to get this real power adding improvement together and seeing thing like carbon fiber rear view mirror covers getting pages long threads and people shelling out money so they can adhere it to their mirror with an adhesive and calling it a modification....

 

Well, if I ever get the chance to buy you a beer, I will.

Thanks for blazing a trail, congrats and cheers!

 

A bottle of single malt scotch is what he deserves, I guess taking him to see "Little Jake" would be nice also if I can tag along too.

 

Ha! Anytime!

 

This is the risk that comes with pioneering new territory! But in this case, the rewards will be worth it. You made remarkable time start to finish as well.

If only there were some people associated with groups like RaceLine paying attention to this thread or some of your other ones

With a little love you should have an absolute torque monster there, and with the FIC at your disposal I guess we'll be discussing a beefy fuel system in the future and maybe some meth

 

5% is a big number... is that based on those that are already running boost and have had the hard time adding power to a limited motor?

 

Yeah, it is so limited that it is used in Formula 4 race cars.... I have been able to do 0 to 60 in 6 seconds in mine after my front tires quit spinning and it hooked up at 40MPH.... There is nothing limited about this little jewel of an engine except for the after market's recognition of it's potential and the limited number of insightful enthusiast that own them.

 

Holy mother of boost creep. WTF. It was like a fighter jet taking off. Well until it started knocking and the ecu, bless her heart, shut down the whole car to keep me from blowing it up. Because the damn thing hit 16psi of boost. So I thought no problem just open up the wastegate a little more. Still goes up to 16psi. So I thought WTF WTF and took off the actuator all together leaving the wastegate full open. SOB still makes boost. Now I'm running an open downpipe so the lack of backpressure is going to decrease the amount of flow through the wastegate. Still, now I have to take the turbo off and port the living shit out of the wastegate, sigh.


Suddenly that t25 powering a lawn mower is coming to mind. Anyway, I need to take a break and go see the girlfriend for a couple days. I'm wore out from this.

 

As scary as that is, I do like how the FIC responded from what you described. I wonder what parameter finally pushed it over the edge?

Anyways.. did you ever test your wastegate pressure, when it starts to crack open?

This is the exact reason I was initially trying to annoy you into running a MHI-style 4-bolt oxygen sensor housing, even though that would require you to get your hands on a DSM T25 turbine housing. I knew the non-segregated wastegate would be a problem at some point, I had no idea it would be so bad that with the gate-arm removed entirely that you would still build boost on a 1.5L!

Atleast this way you can choose to recirc further downstream with a dedicated wastegate pipe even if it only travels 4-5" out of the way, or you can just dump to atmosphere and wrap the dump pipe. Dumping it would give you superior boost control and allow you to squeeze more spool, torque and top end out of you current exhaust! But at the expense of noise and having everyone behind you see a foot long flame of raw exhaust scorching the highway under the car @ WOT

So let me know what you decide to do! I would be more than happy to help you source an MHI turbine housing to open T3 Manifold flange adapter as well as an MHI T25 turbine housing!

Both of which would be cheap since they have been around since 1995 haha

 

Just in case either of you missed this. I am not saying it has any relevance because I am not knowledgeable about the considerations you are facing, but for scientific reasons, this video claims a TD04 works in there.

HONDA FIT GE8 with TD04 -

 

Cool find! The TDO4 designation is actually for the turbine housing only.. he could have any number of turbine wheels and compressors attached to that. The most common of the TD04's has a 5cm2 critical area and are attached to compressors like the 9B, 10T 13G and sometimes in larger varieties like the 15G 17C or 19C wheels. They have the 4 bolt MHI discharge I was referencing earlier, which is very similar to my 6cm2 TD05 turbine with "14B" compressor attached to it.

The TD04's are mitsubishi hot sides. They are very small, arguably the same size aat the GT25R that Lyon is using, except Lyon's is inside a .48A/R "Open T3" housing with a 5 bolt discharge and non-segregated wastegate.

The same GT25 compressor wheel gets attached to the mitsubishi 5cm2 TD04 and is what most of us know as the T25 which is the same as what Lyon has, but has a freer flowing turbine housing. a more efficient turbine wheel, and a segregated wastegate recirc pipe to help keep boost creep in check. Which is why I brought it up as a solution in my last post

So the one used in that video could be any where from a "9B" which only one was used to feed each bank or only 3 cylinders of a 3.0L 6 cylinder (so two TD04-9B's just to feed one 3.0L engine)

Here is the compressor map for a TD04-9B which they rate at ~22lbs/min @ 14psi (at sealevel):


Or a TD04-15G which would be a much better mate for our engines even in spite of the compressor/turbine mismatch in a small 5cm2 turbine housing.

This is what the 15G compressor map looks like for comparison:


Even though they (15G v. 9B) share near identical turbine housings, but different turbine wheels which is what lets them flow that much more in a relatively efficient manner. The 15G map above shows that at the same boost (~14psi) the 15G flows ~34.5lbs/min vs. the ~22lbs/min of the 9B.

That is effectively >100whp difference in capability just by switching the turbine and compressor wheels around, yet using the same turbine housing... Make sense? Sorry for the length.. lol

 

Cool info. I understand some of it, but want to study it more. The maps are not showing up btw.

edit: okay, so with the segregated wastegate, you would have no problem getting enough flow to prevent the boost creep? Makes sense. Those look beefy and configurable.

So, .48A/R has been determined to be a good match?

 

If there is anything in particular I can clarify let me know!

9B Compressor Map:
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td04-09b-cfm.gif

15G Compressor Map:
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td04-15g-cfm.gif

 

Well as far as a segregated gate is concern, it is easier to control boost because you are increasing the amount of air that can exit the discharge side of the turbine wheel (exducer) because it doesnt have to compete with the turbulent exhaust gasses from the wastegate* to fit into the exhaust pipe through one hole. This way they both at least get a chance to accelerate down the tail pipe and then merge later on where they are more organized.

This still won't help in some cases, where the flow is exceeding the capability of the tail pipe. Thats where you have to decide on dumping to atmosphere or ponying up for a full turbo back exhaust. On our cars you could probably get away with 2.5" till about 400whp worth of air is trying to get through, even with an atmospheric dumped gate.

And to address your last question, the .48AR housing that comes on the GT2554R is the very smallest you can get away with. While it makes for astounding spool and torque, it chokes out easy. I would venture to suggest that even on Q16 you would probably have trouble flowing more than 25-26lbs/min and even than it would be at relatively low boost and at 60% or lower drive efficiency*

Edits*

 

Now this makes perfect sense. Got it! Thanks!

 

It is problems like Lyon is having that turned me off too trying to do a turbo set up and self tuning..... 30 or more years ago I would have been gung ho diving in with both feet but I don't need the shit scared out of me at this age but it would help with constipation that is secondary to all of the medication I have to take.... Putting a turbocharger on my 1800cc Honda wouldn't be as much trouble I think as far as the physical stress it would put on my body.

 

I can start looking into ways of getting a larger rotrex or (ideally) a smaller pulley for you to play with!

KWSC kits run on speed density afterall and you don't have lag to fuck up your VE table if you did jump to a bigger compressor or higher boost from your existing unit! Could even be a bolt on affair..

 

That sounds like a winner but then figuring what belt size is need and then finding one the correct width has to be done followed by getting the AEM AF/IC will need a Boom Slang harness, then A/F meter and 5 band O2 sensor and a bung welded into the downpipe... That is rough but not all that scary but learning how to program and work up the tune is scary... I can get a meter I think but does it just need a 5 band O2 sensor to work or is there more?