so my atf cooler doesn't big enough dsm?

Stock engine?wow! the climate support so much yeah?
so far in indonesia a few automatic ge8 blow up the problem is on rod..the rod broken off..

yes i have already look that first ge8 turbo...

here another picture :

and i don't have picture from the otherside..
yes i might buy titanium manifold like weapon R..
but i couldn't find it for ge8 the intake manifold usually for gd3..

 

Broken rods on a GE? They are forged rods stock, at least in the USDM GE8.

Lyon was running nitrous 55HP shots of on his GE before turbo-ing it. The weather really helps this time of year though, tonight it is -12C according to the thermometer in my garage. But in the summer we can see 35-38C!

So I mix my own fuel to help battle the weather in the summer because when it's warm is the only time I have traction (remember spinning =/= winning lol) I like to run 2.0-2.5 Bar (30-38psi) on the big turbo in my racecar depending on the weather and the fuel I am using!


The map for the S258 and my S259 are very similar, the '58 will flow 62-65lbs/min efficiently @ ~37psi boost or 2.5 Bar! My S259 will flow as much as 69lbs/min @ 2.5Bar!

69lbs/min is almost enough air for 700whp on my big cammed 2.0L FWD setup! But I will need a larger exhaust (4") and a bigger T4 turbine housing and exhaust manifold.

I was seeing about 52-53lbs/min @ 2 Bar on pump gas only because of how efficient this turbo is! Enough air for 500whp on pump gas! No toluene or methanol needed!

My goal is to be able to flow 63-65lbs/min out of this turbo. This requires a blend of 80% US 93 Octane premium gas with 20% US 118 Octane Toluene.

On top of the 80/20 Gas and Toluene, I inject 675cc's of Methanol mixed 50/50 with water! Unfortunately I need a bigger methanol nozzle and a bigger reservoir. The tank I have is only 1 gal so I burn through it fast enough with the 675cc nozzle.



Anyways back on topic, that was more for perspective on what you can get away with using the proper parts, fuel, tune and precautions!
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Broken rods on a GE sounds like a combination of things went wrong...

My thoughts on what caused the stock rods to fail involves overly aggressive tune or really bad fuel on a hot day combined with bad oil or too thin oil as well a driver who doesn't let things warm up or cool off after use!

But you know better than that, and your 20w50 will go a long way in protecting your internals under harsh conditions!

And you have aftermarket rods and pistons to help take advantage of an aggressive tune! You will not be able to make enough power on your current turbo to create mechanical failure unless you melt something or blow up with a "race" tune because of bad weather or fuel !

After hard driving you need to let the car idle as much as 2-3minutes before turning it off to avoid having oil get cooked in hot spots in addition to letting it warm up.

After a light drive, where you were travelling for short distance at less than 60-70km/h you probably only need to let it "idle down" for about about a minute.

You ATF cooler as long as it is bigger than stock and has a fan on it should be fine! The transmission temperature gauge will tell you the rest. If the gauge is always showing say >100-110C even in light driving, you need a bigger cooler!

 

Not just running them, but detonating them and melting spark plugs with them.

The first part to fail is rarely the cause of the failure. Take a car with a bad tune, snap a rod, and replace with stronger forged rods, then run the same tune. Odds are you will burn a ring land, burn a hole in the piston crown, burn a valve, snap the crank, pop a headgasket, or something exotic like a snaped wrist pin.


Going back to basics:

Well tuned boost even, at 15psi of boost, should not cause failure of OEM internal parts built within reasonable tolerances.

I don't know how well this will translate but here is an except from the master himself, Corky Bell.

 

Excellent post!

Well I certainly hope everyone remembers high school physics and their trig. identities! Rod angles, of which our high revving Honda engines have great rod ratios, are the enemy in most engines where power is raised above stock..

That is why I don't feel the GE rods are really a weak link unless the USDM is getting "factory freaks" vs. JDM/EUDM, something else HAD to be going on for them to fail if they have the same rods you do, Lyon.

Oh and here is a wrist pin I broke a couple years ago with too much powaaa!:



This is what happened to the rod after the pin broke and the piston jammed...

 

Wow, I cant imagine what levels of power it takes to fracture a wrist pin like that. I would keep that hung on a wall.

 

yes they are forged but broke into two pieces..
maybe the fuel in here so bad..or the weather so hot..
and the fuel quality in us maybe much better than in here,,haha
so Lyon can boost up his car up to 0.8 bar..
wow 55 nitrous shot???!! what the type of nos? is single fogger wet sytem or multi-direct port?
YOUR TURBO IS SO BIG!!!!HAHA..
do you used honda K20R or somethin like that?K24 maybe?

But you know better than that, and your 20w50 will go a long way in protecting your internals under harsh conditions!
absolutely YES!

i keep the stock ATF cooler so in my car have 2 ATF cooler lols,,
ok i will place the fan in front of it..

After hard driving you need to let the car idle as much as 2-3minutes before turning it off to avoid having oil get cooked in hot spots in addition to letting it warm up.

After a light drive, where you were travelling for short distance at less than 60-70km/h you probably only need to let it "idle down" for about about a minute.

You ATF cooler as long as it is bigger than stock and has a fan on it should be fine! The transmission temperature gauge will tell you the rest. If the gauge is always showing say >100-110C even in light driving, you need a bigger cooler!

yes i used blitz turbo timer so my car automatically idle with the time i've before..
i usually used 30s idle time..hhaha.,,

i want the gauge but most of your link is for us or canada..and i must waiting for 3-4 month shipping to indonesia?haha..

 

I forget which style nitrous system exactly, maybe he will chime in sometime in the next day or two..

That turbo is currently on a 2.0L Mitsu 4G63T. I have two others motors in progress for that car. One is a 2.3L stroker (Swapping stock88mm crank to 100mm throw crank and custom pistons) for street and road course racing.

The other is an Aluminum rod motor with a high rod ratio (longer than stock rods on stock size 88mm crank with custom "short" pistons) intended for very high revs (>11,500rpm) on a much bigger turbo (95lb/min vs. 69lb/min) That is for standing mile and land speed attempts.
This is what the demand lines look like on a 2.0L that is revving to 11,000rpm on a 70lb/min Holset HX40 turbo, similar to my Borg Warner S259 pictured above:


If you notice, just like how the 25-27lb/min T25 turbo is technically too small on your Fit L15A revving to 7000rpm... that 70lb/min HX40 is way too small for a 2.0L that revs to 11,000rpm

The engine currently in the car is intended to be the back up motor for the other two!

This size turbo would be almost worthless on an L15A, especially at a stock redline of ~7000rpm

But on a 2.0L that revs north of 11,500rpm (with supporting cams, valvetrain, HLAs, etc.) I get to use the fat part of the map and make huge power efficiently!

This is what a 95lb/min Garrett GT42R looks like:



Two ATF coolers will help, and the temp gauge isn't mandatory, but a good idea. I am sure they have them for trucks and stuff in your country. They are very common on vehicles that are meant for towing trailers. My links were just for examples, as I know export/import can be a lengthy process.

I am curious about just what sort of fuels you guys have in Indonesia as that will make the biggest difference in what your tuner can get away with!

In the mean time with good maintenance and driving habits, along with the oil you are using and the rotating assembly you put together the rods will not be something to worry about. I am sure that someone somewhere in the JDM region is making a metal intake manifold for the GEs!

 

Very impressive bro! Thanks a lot....
Did you used 0.8 bar for daily driven?? How long? May I know..

 

I don't mean to speak for him, but he has spent the majority of the time at 0.5 bar. He has been turbo'd since New Year's Eve (1/1/2011)!
Recently he has stepped up to 0.8.

Several times in the tuning/learning process he has occasionally (accidently) seen over 1.0 Bar!

And he was on nitrous for a couple months, if not longer than that!

He has a lot of GE specific knowledge to share. I have learned a lot from Lyon in the process! As I am a GD Manual Trans owner. Thank goodness he did not buy that mustang he was threatening too! We would be missing out!


Remember he is stock motor! You have a "built" motor. Your only obvious weak points now are the transmission and apparently your plastic section of intake manifold...
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But I will let him give you all the juicy details!



Keep an eye on the plastic part and make sure it is not starting to "balloon" or stretch from the pressure!

 

Yep I still drive 0.5 bar daily. I only go to 0.8 bar for very short bursts. I'm not yet confident enough in my tune to DD that much boost, it's more like an extra boost for when i need it I still haven't completely tuned the spark and fuel cuts out of the system and high boost levels make it worse. Nothing more embarrassing that getting a fuel and spark cut that goes straight into 'limp mode' (ecu wont let you go above 3k rpms) in the middle of passing a car .


even worse, when the spark cut happens it actually momentarily switches the ignition power circuit on and off (I can tell because my UEGO gauge, which is tapped off the ignition circuit, restarts every time there is a spark cut). During this time it has to read the immobilizer code again. 1 out of every 50 spark cuts it will not read the immobilizer code in time and the engine will completely shut down, requiring a restart. Talk about embarrassing.

 

Think of them as growing pains

Thats what happens when you are breaking new ground as a private tuner!

Your input in all this is invaluable! Thanks for always being so detailed!

 

I ever look more horrible than that... The B22 piston melting then the rod shot through it.. lols

 

ok i will keep searching for the trans temps gauge... hehe

take a look at this :

this manifold made by weapon R for GD3,,
some tuner in my country said it can be placed on GE8 engine to replace the plastic one's.. but i must take a little modification on my hks piping..and i want intake manifold with bolt-on application..
do you have a friend or something that can built an intake manifold for me? or can you order an intake manifold for GE8 from Weapon R or Skunk2 maybe,,

 

ok i will keep searching for the trans temps gauge... hehe

take a look at this :

this manifold made by weapon R for GD3,,
some tuner in my country said it can be placed on GE8 engine to replace the plastic one's.. but i must take a little modification on my hks piping..and i want intake manifold with bolt-on application..
do you have a friend or something that can built an intake manifold for me? or can you order an intake manifold for GE8 from Weapon R or Skunk2 maybe,,

 

I honestly have no idea if i actually bolts up to the GE8 bottom end. I should really research this. I could probably order a gd3 manifold gasket someday and compare.

 

ok i will keep searching for the trans temps gauge... hehe

take a look at this :

this manifold made by weapon R for GD3,,
some tuner in my country said it can be placed on GE8 engine to replace the plastic one's.. but i must take a little modification on my hks piping..and i want intake manifold with bolt-on application..
do you have a friend or something that can built an intake manifold for me? or can you order an intake manifold for GE8 from Weapon R or Skunk2 maybe,,

 

That is nice. I would be willing to bet that if you take it to a quality welding shop they could make that work on a GE! You would just need to buy a new GE flange or intake gasket for the shop to use as a template when the re-weld the runners on to the new flange.

As far as me ordering one or having one made for you, that would be very expensive even before shipping and customs unfortunately.

I do have a few people in the US I would recommend.. if you lived in the US. Otherwise it would be prohibitively expensive and not worth it at that point

 

I wanna live in there someday...huft...
From dyno result my car can't touch 200hp..
Ohh so bad.. I don't what wrong with my car..
I boosted at 0.8.. My tuner worried about the intake if it keep insist pushed at 1 bar it will break off.. keep pray for me...the dyno run again..........

 

Unfortunately I am about to go to sleep but just wanted to get this out for you.. Will look forward to your response tomorrow

What was temperature and humidty?

Fuel type?

How big is your exhaust diameter from the turbo all the way back?

Remember this map:


When it is 20*C with low humidity, and you are boosting 0.8 bar you should be moving about 21-22lbs/min which is about what you would need to see 200whp on a manual transmission.

But that is only if you have good fuel and intercooler that will let you run something like 20-22* spark advance

On an auto trans, on a 20C day you would need at least 1 Bar (23-24lbs/min) to make 200whp. That would be under ideal conditions (good fuel, intercooler and lots of spark advance)

If it is say 30*C you are not even moving enough air at 1.0 bar, you would have to run >1 bar. Problem is that the air entering the turbo is already hotter (vs. 20C) plus you have to run more boost. So the air exiting the turbo is now even hotter! as much as 130-150C!

So if you can even run that without knocking on your pump gas and current intercooler, you won't be able to run enough spark timing advance to take advantage if the air you are moving. So even if you have enough air, because it is too hot you cannot run aggressive spark timing to take advantage of it because the weather, fuel and intercooler might not be able to safely support it.

A big way to help this is with bigger exhaust. The best way would be bigger exhaust and bigger turbo.

But since you are sticking with this turbo for at least the near future.. you should look and see about getting bigger exhaust and better fuel. Then go to dyno on a cold day, like 20C. Run 1 bar boost, and you should definitely make 200whp

I told you 250whp would be very hard to make if not impossible on this little turbo on our little 1.5L engines

The nice part is if you do go big exhaust when you do move up to bigger turbo you shouldn't have to upgrade again. So something like 75mm diameter?

 

good morning dsm..
i'm sorry if i distrubed you last nite...
fuel = RON 95 (+-95 octane)
temp = about 35-40C so hot in jakarta
the exhaust is custom made by hks itself..i imported them from japan.. hks silent hi-power and hks center pipe..i'm forgot about the size....hahaha..but that the best pipes that i can got..
my car was ran about 196 hp at 0.8 bar..
if i push up to 1 bar it will give more horsepower..but the temps it's too hot, the plastic intake can't support much, and many powerloss in the gearbox *the gearbox cannot stand the power so many power lost in here..some people called this "slip" on autotransmission...the rpm is increase but the trans can deliver the power to the wheels...so the power is loss,,
i belive i can run this car 200whp by the end of this year..