any data to back this up?

this is simply not true. less body roll = more grip available to the tires and better damping possibility for the suspension... not to mention more precise dynamic camber and added benefits from performance alignment.

unless you have some data to back up your ideas, i think that you're wrong, because you're thinking in terms of understeer and oversteer, not actual performance and handling in terms of lateral G holding and cornering grip.
the thicker front bar will not, in any way, cancel out the performance gain of the rear, it will compliment it.


you will increase grip with a rear, with a front, AND with a rear and front.

unless they're some magical fit fairy that goes and breaks the laws of physics just so that you can spend less money.

 

manxman's talking about in terms of general street application, i think.

yes, more rigid front and rear swaybar can improve the overall handling
of the car given that (and not limited to):

1) the tires can handle more lateral G (better grip).

2) you have a lot of neg-camber dialed in the front and
minimal camber in the rear and do not want to alter that
setting by increasing/decreasing it from bodyroll.
the rear camber and toe angles are optimized to your
new setup using larger bars.

3) your chassis is reinforced with stb's. upper and lower
beams, roll cage, etc.

 

You can believe whatever you want, and kenchan is correct in his reply. I posted my supposition based on street experience with aftermarket sway bars on various vehicles. Any member who has BOTH the BE replacement bar AND the Progress add-on rear bar is invited to post what his/her experience is using the heavier front bar with the rear bar. My bet is that if there is anyone who has done this, their Fit is used mainly for track.

 

It is a basic law of physics.
Take it from somebody who auto crossed in C-Street Prepared in a CRX for years and blasted Angels Crest, Mulholland and it's tributaries during the day and at 2am, stiffer front sway bar will negatively affect balance unless you start messing up with all the adjustments kenchan listed.
Too much negative front camber will hurt acceleration and braking. Some body roll is desirable if it applies more car weight/traction to the wheels with grip. Going to extremes makes for a very nervous car that can snap from one extreme to the other rendering it underivable. Watch in car cameras from F1 or other forms of motorsport and you can tell the difference by how much the driver works the steering wheel. In F1 notice how much less McLaren and Ferrari drivers work the wheel in comparison to Red Bull, Toro Rosso,...
Front bar will create more crisp turn in, but at the same time it will create more understeer. If you install stiffer front bar, you will need an even stiffer rear bar. And there is only so much stiffness you can benefit from.
Balance between mods is the key. Many times added "benefits" start canceling each other making for far worst handling than OEM.
Just the same as throwing every bolt on mod to the engine can make for a slower car that makes afoul lot of noise.
Very few mods being sold are tested together with other mods!

In stock autocross class it is a common knowledge that people remove front OEM sway bar since they can't add rear bar as per regulations.
My CRX has Koni yellows and I got ST front and rear sway bar. I ended up going back to stock front sway bar since using both front and rear ST bars got me more turn in stiffness, but car was an understeering dog. Cornering limits went way up using both bars, but balance stayed the same as if with OEM bars-big time understeer. I tried compensating with damper adjustments and tire pressures. It worked up to a point and only on super smooth surfaces, but how many roads and tracks are super smooth?! Set up this way, entering bumpy corner, car would start bouncing in the rear and car would swap ends around violently and faster than anybody could bring it back. Stock front bar made it possible to run considerably softer rear dampers and less rear tire pressure making suspension much more compliant over bumps without loosing grip. Actually car had more grip making cornering at up to 15-20 mph higher speeds possible.

Trust me stiffer is not always better. You need to apply stiffness in moderation. It cracks me up to read posts about people demanding rock hard set ups for the sake of handling. It just tels me that they never ever pushed their car beyond the cornering traction limits at speeds above 75mph on a single or double lane, twisty, rough canyon road where posted speed limit is 15-25mph. Yeah I know, that was stupid, but I was 17 and at 17 you feel invincible. Do not get me wrong, myself and others paid the price along the way. Just not the ultimate one. We were lucky. Many others were not. Fortunately I "discovered" autocrossing on time.
Driving down city streets and making a turn at 50mph without braking is not such an awesome handling. Many cars in stock trim are capable of that these days. More and more cars come with soft rubber tires and track proven handling straight from the showroom floor.

Even better, do not take my word for it. Go autocrossing. It is by far the safest way of finding your cars limits. Spend the money on every "hot" part available. Buy the front bar and try it out. Then put back the OEM bar and drive it again. Install rear Progress bar before you start experimenting. If you don't, you will never be able to tell the difference between two badly understeering set ups.
There is too many companies making parts that promise fairytale and very few that can back them up. It is simple economics. Money and greed.

I know I am not making many friends with this post, but if that is the case you are not being honest with yourself. You need to be realistic about your intentions for the ultimate usage of your car. There is no such thing as an ultimate track car and a daily driver. Something always has to give in. Not unless you have $100K-300K to burn. Believe me, many (including myself) tried and never succeeded. Buy a cheap, second car and put your money in it and take it to the track. Keep your daily driver a within limits for a daily driver. Do not buy sway bars, coil overs, big brakes, ..... if car will never be pushed to the limit in competition and only purpose is to impress us with your list of mods in your signature.

 

You may have missed the point of my post, which was in reply to a guy who was wondering if he should buy a front sway bar for his Fit. It already has one. My reply covered two ideas- since his car already has a front bar, he definitely should add the Progress rear bar as the least expensive and MOST effective handling mod.

According to Canadian members AND "MrFroge" in CA, he can get a similar improvement by replacing the stock front sway bar with the stiffer one from BE. My warning AGAINST adding BOTH the BE and the Progress bars is based on my own experience, and was echoed in more detail by "ciburri" (thanks Ivan!).

But you have my sincere, personal invitation to blow the money on BOTH bars yourself, and I eagerly await your review (if you live through your test drive).

 

well if that's the case, i was confused. i thought you meant handling performance and not handling bias, and kenchan cleared that up wonderfully.

i agree that the rear should be used if you want to make the car understeer less and don't need it to handle higher corner speeds, but i got confused with what you meant by performance. it's all good

 

yah, your posts are too damn long.

 

Hey kenchan,
Further back in this thread you mentioned that you were going to monitor the effects that road salt had on the progress sway.
Have you been able to see what if any effects the salt has had on the part this winter here?

Thanks.

 

sorry, haven't looked in detail yet cause we're still hit with roadsalt.
i plan to upgrade my suspension later on this month so will take a look
and report back. im going to be removing the bar for a few weeks
to try out something.

 

who else is getting clunking from the rear? do you guys switch out the hardware that came with teh progress swaybar? it seems like the springs aren't lined up right. what is teh fix for this?

 

If you have noise, you installed it wrong. Reinstall your springs and plastic spring pads, and make sure that shock bolts are TIGHT.

 

ok dave. springs might need to be rotated. that's waht im thinking. shock bolts are tight. swaybar bolts are tight. i'll check tomorrow. the noise is DEFINATELY the springs. has a springy sound :P :P.

PS, other than the sound *that is my fault* the swaybar is AWESOME!!!!!! tightened up the handling 100x! i can't believe i waited so long to order this.

 

quoting this for this page!

 

What kind of springs do you have?

 

skunk2 springs. that's what i think the problem is. i have aftermarket springs.

 

ilfit- i installed EnduraTech coilovers over the weekend and while doing
so, i inspected the Progress bar for corrosion. absolutely none! this is
through 3months of roadsalt.

 

Just ordered my Progress Rear Sway Bar today from Progress. Waiting for it in the mail, just in time to go home for spring break and install it!

 

I put my wife's on this past weekend. Wow, what a difference! Much more neutral...had a LOT of fun blasting through the mountains yesterday.

It was kind of a pain getting it in place. Hardest part was getting it up and over the fuel filler lines.

 

yah, i held the bar in place on my forehead while putting one of the side
brackets on.

 

If you are having a hard time finding the Progress lowering springs or the Progress rear sway bar kits in stock anywhere, I have them on the shelf. Free shipping in the lower 48 States on the Progress rear sway bar kit for the Honda Fit for a limited time.

Tony D
Your Progress Dealer