Discuss all Forced induction modifications for the Fit
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So I understand that the SC kit will be tuned for stock application, but a few concerns first: My friend got a Jackson SC for his prelude and had it installed and had some engine light issues and tuning issues when it was supposed to just bolt on. Is this a problem with the FIT or is it a clean install?
Our kits have no check engine lights (CEL) and are a full bolt-on system. If the directions are followed correctly, you will have no issues.
Your factory OBDII system will work as normal with our kit.
So that means if you take your catalytic converter off (For Off-Road Use Only of course...), you will get a CEL.
__________________ Oscar Jackson Jr. KraftWerks Supercharger Systems Forced Induction Forum Sponsor
not all boost is created equal.
Was wondering if the Jacksons could clear this up for those of us outside the US/Canada that are also looking at this kit.
If we have a JDM Fit/Jazz, will the newly designed S/C install without any issues? or will our smaller front bumpers create an issue?
Thanx.
We will confirm international compatibility once our production pieces our available. We will be sending these pieces to Rotrex partners throughout the world to check Right Hand Drive Fit/Jazz. We believe that we should have no problems.
Unfortunately, the kit will be available in North America only upon initial release. We will get out international testing complete, and then the kit will be available to all Fit/Jazz owners...
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
__________________ Oscar Jackson Jr. KraftWerks Supercharger Systems Forced Induction Forum Sponsor
not all boost is created equal.
The graphs in the CURRENT Siphon would show an increase of over 45%. This increase is with a Cat Delete, at 5 PSI.
The Rotrex does not produce air similar to a common centrifugal at all. True, it is not like a Roots; the Roots is king of 0-2500RPM. But as you can see in the newer graph, we have a 20 lb-ft of torque over stock at 2750 in the Fit. The Fit motor is VERY anemic at this level. So an increase is greatly needed, and is there.
Our High-Boost number show an EVEN GREATER low end response, and are very impressive.
We have lots of experience with Roots, in fact 17 years of experience, which is more than anybody else in the industry.
The Rotrex is unique compared to all superchargers.
I have to run, I will be back in a few hours.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
__________________ Oscar Jackson Jr. KraftWerks Supercharger Systems Forced Induction Forum Sponsor
not all boost is created equal.
It may not have the low end lag of centrifugal superchargers like the Vortech, but there's no denying that the power curve of your Rotrex kit is very similar to that of a centrifugally blown motor.
Once again, I disagree. I have had a lot of time to work with the Rotrex, and the lack of lag is what sets this supercharger apart. No noise, no lag, no problems.
The Rotrex produces a much flatter torque curve, without the "peakiness" of traditional centrifugals. Its easily proven in the design of the Rotrex.
The Rotrex was built with the idea that, turbos compressors are efficient pumps, they are just coupled to heat and are exhaust driven. Why not build a belt driven turbo?
Typical turbo compressors wheels spin above 80,000RPM to be in their efficiency range. This range, depending on the size of the compressor wheel, can be up to and above 200,000 RPM. The lag you experience is the exhaust having to drive the turbine to spin the compressor, to get to the efficiency range.
This efficiency range cannot be reached by the centrifugals we commonly know.
To counter act not hitting the high RPMs, traditional centrifugal superchargers have been big, and had big compressor wheels, in an attempt to move air. But these big wheels also cause poor low RPM performance on the vehicle. Furthermore, their compressor wheels are limited to around 55,000 RPM.
The Rotrex counteracts this in a multitude of ways. The Rotrex is small and uses 12.7:1 step ratio. This ratio allows very fast compressor speeds, well over 200,000 RPM. This high ratio helps at LOW RPM to pick up your low end, and it carries the power through the rev range. An added benefit is how cool the Rotrex operates compared to other forced induction. The Rotrex pumps and uses its own Rotrex oil, in a closed oiling system. No need to tie into your stock oil system and heat the supercharger up. We can have optimal timing and produce more power because of all these efficiency increases.
That's why if you check our new Fit dyno graph (in Siphon #005), you can see a good increase in low end torque, with it growing smoothly throughout the power band. Remember, this is with 5 PSI, our standard SuperCard CARB-Pending electronics and stock injectors. Our High-Boost kit will increase the performance and low end further because, once again, the increased impeller speeds. Also, the High-boost has no CARB compliance and Hondata reflash.
So you can see, the idea was not "build a better centrifugal", it was "build a better way of forced induction."
Yes, it does do some things similar... But it is hard to compare sometimes, especially with your example graph. Traditional thinking cannot be used with the Rotrex, because of how it produces air...
We have tested a lot... a lot. And have learned a lot about what this Rotrex likes.
We have other Fits during testing, not just Chris'. But we can't release our prototype graphs; that's not fair to you, or us.
Hope this answers some questions... If I screwed up a sentence, I apologize. This one was a little long!
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
__________________ Oscar Jackson Jr. KraftWerks Supercharger Systems Forced Induction Forum Sponsor
not all boost is created equal.
That's a good question. I wonder how often the belt(s) will need to be replaced, since, for example, the belts on their older designed kit for the 97-01 Preludes had a relatively short timespan.....from my understanding.
The very short supercharger belt (approx. 20 in.) on the old Prelude kits (two belts because of jack shaft system) had to be changed more often because it could not dissipate heat as well as a larger belt. That is the only kit that has had that issue, and it was impossible to get around. As we have said many times about that kit, it was a tough kit to complete.
Fit:
We include an automatic tensioner with our kit (stock car uses a manual tensioner) to help increase constant belt tension and reduce belt slipping. The automatic tensioner also increases belt life.
We have had excellent wear (meaning low wear), and have had no belt related issues. But I would expect to change the belt a little more often than stock, because the supercharged belt must work a bit harder.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
__________________ Oscar Jackson Jr. KraftWerks Supercharger Systems Forced Induction Forum Sponsor
not all boost is created equal.
Question for JDM Chris or Oscar is the kit fully compatible with all the bolt ons that are out for the Fit or will you have to keep the same stock pulley or certain types of headers wont fit or is everything cool?
The stock crank pulley MUST be used with our kit.
Most of the headers on the market should work fine with our kit.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
__________________ Oscar Jackson Jr. KraftWerks Supercharger Systems Forced Induction Forum Sponsor
not all boost is created equal.
Would you possible for you to give all the fans a video (with audio) of your supercharged Fit revving? I would love to hear what it sounds like.
Well...uhh... the car would sound like it had just an intake! The supercharger makes no noise. The only noise you might hear if revved to high RPM is the bypass valve. The bypass makes a small pshh on high RPM shifts. But that's about it.
It is wonderful to have such a silent technology!
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
__________________ Oscar Jackson Jr. KraftWerks Supercharger Systems Forced Induction Forum Sponsor
not all boost is created equal.
OMG........so all the after-market light weight pulley wont work on this super charge???
Lightweight crank pulleys are not supported for a few reasons. First, they do not always maintain the stock crank size. The crank pulley is what turns the supercharger, and the size of the crank pulley helps determine the amount of boost, not just the supercharger pulley.
A smaller crank pulley on our Base kit will produce more boost than intended.
Also, if you do a Google search on lightweight crank pulleys, you might find some interesting information. We're not here to put down other products, but we have worked with street and race engines for a long time now. Oscar Sr. easily has 30+ years of experience building Honda race engines.
All Jackson Racing championship-winning race cars have used a harmonic dampened crank pulley. The Skunk2 9-sec NA drag engines use harmonic dampened crank pulleys. NASCAR, IMSA, F1... Every great engine builder that we have met uses harmonic dampened crank pulleys.
Now I'm not trying to start "thread fire" (Can I say that? Does that make sense?), I'm just trying to explain why we do not recommend lightweight crank pulleys with our kits.
Under Drive Pulleys-
Under drive pulleys for your various accessories affect belt length. Our belt length has been determined using stock components. All of our durability testing has been with stock components.
Also, under drive pulleys affect your accessory performance at low speed. The small performance gain, if any, will not be important once you have boost.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
__________________ Oscar Jackson Jr. KraftWerks Supercharger Systems Forced Induction Forum Sponsor
not all boost is created equal.
Whew... just got done reading everything in this thread... and I saw the dyno charts... and I am happy to say I am very impressed in what you fella's have accomplished... i am no doubt going to buy this sometime in the future!!! I'll be in contact with Kraftwerks soon, ready to purchase my SC... just one last question though...
who can I get to do the installation?
(I did read and it said that it would take an experience person 6hrs... the car shop that I go to often have never worked on a fit... as far as sc's go... they've been in business for 15 years... installing everything from turbos to exhausts, etc... would they be able to do that?)
If you have changed the brake pads on your car, and have a mechanical sense, you can probably install the kit yourself.
But if you are not comfortable with installing the kit, any experienced mechanic will be able to follow the detailed instructions and complete the install. So the shop you mentioned will be able to install the kit.
I have taken the kit on and off the car so much, I could probably do it blind-folded. So we base our estimated time by having someone who has not touched the kit at all, do an install. This helps with instruction clarification as well.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
__________________ Oscar Jackson Jr. KraftWerks Supercharger Systems Forced Induction Forum Sponsor
not all boost is created equal.
We're not here to put down other products, but we have worked with street and race engines for a long time now. Oscar Sr. easily has 30+ years of experience building Honda race engines.
All Jackson Racing championship-winning race cars have used a harmonic dampened crank pulley. The Skunk2 9-sec NA drag engines use harmonic dampened crank pulleys. NASCAR, IMSA, F1... Every great engine builder that we have met uses harmonic dampened crank pulleys.
Now I'm not trying to start "thread fire", I'm just trying to explain why we do not recommend lightweight crank pulleys with our kits.
I think my above statement can explain our feeling on lightweight crank pulleys. It really is up to you.
Requirements, and recommendations are two separate things. The kit does not require a stock crank pulley, but a stock crank pulley is highly recommended.
We are not going to put down another manufacturer, that's just not us. Products change and evolve. But from our years of engine building, we only use stock, or high-quality, dampened, crank pulleys.
I think the link JDMChris posted is also a good source of information.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
__________________ Oscar Jackson Jr. KraftWerks Supercharger Systems Forced Induction Forum Sponsor
not all boost is created equal.
for the 5 lbs kit do i need 1) upgrade the injectors just in case the stock ones cant keep up with the s/c 2) change axle 3) does it come with boost gauges or i have to order on my own
P.S: sorry for the No0B questions...
Stock injectors. Dont need to change axles. Need ur own boost gauges. I got the AEM digital boost and wideband for mine.
unless you're tuning on the fly, which you won't be with this kit, then you dont need any of those. if you just want to add gauges, then get whatever seems exciting.
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Linear Mode
