Just for grins.......assuming both cars were in 3rd and running stock diameter wheel/tire combos, it looks like you would have been sitting at about 5,000 rpm while the Si would have been right at 6,000 rpm. Looks like a good test scenario to me.

 

You guys are analyzing old info...

The graphs in the CURRENT Siphon would show an increase of over 45%. This increase is with a Cat Delete, at 5 PSI.

The Rotrex does not produce air similar to a common centrifugal at all. True, it is not like a Roots; the Roots is king of 0-2500RPM. But as you can see in the newer graph, we have a 20 lb-ft of torque over stock at 2750 in the Fit. The Fit motor is VERY anemic at this level. So an increase is greatly needed, and is there.

Our High-Boost number show an EVEN GREATER low end response, and are very impressive.

We have lots of experience with Roots, in fact 17 years of experience, which is more than anybody else in the industry.
The Rotrex is unique compared to all superchargers.

I have to run, I will be back in a few hours.

-Oscar Jackson Jr.

 

yes thats what i meant, and if i'm not mistaken i don't think he has dynoed it with the new kit...


or have you chris?

 

It may not have the low end lag of centrifugal superchargers like the Vortech, but there's no denying that the power curve of your Rotrex kit is very similar to that of a centrifugally blown motor.

Such as below.......

 

I Called 2 Weeks Ago And Was Told They Would Be Comming In January And Was Wondering If That Was Still Going To Happen? Also Is There GOing To Be A Intro Price Or A Discounted Groupe Buy?

 

Once again, I disagree. I have had a lot of time to work with the Rotrex, and the lack of lag is what sets this supercharger apart. No noise, no lag, no problems.

The Rotrex produces a much flatter torque curve, without the "peakiness" of traditional centrifugals. Its easily proven in the design of the Rotrex.

The Rotrex was built with the idea that, turbos compressors are efficient pumps, they are just coupled to heat and are exhaust driven. Why not build a belt driven turbo?

Typical turbo compressors wheels spin above 80,000RPM to be in their efficiency range. This range, depending on the size of the compressor wheel, can be up to and above 200,000 RPM. The lag you experience is the exhaust having to drive the turbine to spin the compressor, to get to the efficiency range.

This efficiency range cannot be reached by the centrifugals we commonly know.
To counter act not hitting the high RPMs, traditional centrifugal superchargers have been big, and had big compressor wheels, in an attempt to move air. But these big wheels also cause poor low RPM performance on the vehicle. Furthermore, their compressor wheels are limited to around 55,000 RPM.

The Rotrex counteracts this in a multitude of ways. The Rotrex is small and uses 12.7:1 step ratio. This ratio allows very fast compressor speeds, well over 200,000 RPM. This high ratio helps at LOW RPM to pick up your low end, and it carries the power through the rev range. An added benefit is how cool the Rotrex operates compared to other forced induction. The Rotrex pumps and uses its own Rotrex oil, in a closed oiling system. No need to tie into your stock oil system and heat the supercharger up. We can have optimal timing and produce more power because of all these efficiency increases.

That's why if you check our new Fit dyno graph (in Siphon #005), you can see a good increase in low end torque, with it growing smoothly throughout the power band. Remember, this is with 5 PSI, our standard SuperCard CARB-Pending electronics and stock injectors. Our High-Boost kit will increase the performance and low end further because, once again, the increased impeller speeds. Also, the High-boost has no CARB compliance and Hondata reflash.

So you can see, the idea was not "build a better centrifugal", it was "build a better way of forced induction."
Yes, it does do some things similar... But it is hard to compare sometimes, especially with your example graph. Traditional thinking cannot be used with the Rotrex, because of how it produces air...

We have tested a lot... a lot. And have learned a lot about what this Rotrex likes.

We have other Fits during testing, not just Chris'. But we can't release our prototype graphs; that's not fair to you, or us.

Hope this answers some questions... If I screwed up a sentence, I apologize. This one was a little long!

-Oscar Jackson Jr.

 

Introductory offer has not been announced, but will be available from our website in January.

-Oscar Jackson Jr.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you about the characteristics and benefits of the Rotrex compared to other forced induction systems. I wouldn't do that since I obviously have zero experience with the product. The only point I was trying to make is that when I look at a the dyno graph in the link on the previous page, both hp and tq are for the most part climbing in a linear fashion throughout the powerband, which is a lot more similar to a centrifugal blower than that of a Roots blower. You are definitely right though about the Rotrex graph not displaying the same peakiness or complete lack of low end that the centrifugal blowers do.

 

First of all, thanks Oscar for the description of Rotrex, it was useful.

Secondly, Chris I remember somewhere (I can't find it anymore between the two superlong threads) you said something about your fuel economy. I was wondering how it's doing nowadays (about the same?). More importantly, how does it compare %-wise to your economy before the kit.

Oscar, if you have some anecdotal experience about fuel economy from any of your other Fit testbeds, that'd also be useful.

Oh, and one more thing to clear up: you're saying the Siphon article that was posted is for the OLD kit? It's just four scanned pages that say "Spring 2007" in the footer, but for those of us who don't get Siphon (everyone who downloaded it) we can't tell what # issue it is. If it's old, can someone post the dyno from the new one (article)?

Thanks!

 

No offense taken.
Just explaining.
:thumbup: <We need this, its my favorite expression

-Oscar Jackson Jr.

 

Still have one question, why the high Boost Kit (10PSI) cannot work on AT Fit? Because the tran. cannot handle the boost or some reason??

Would you mind explain??

 

I think my scans were of Siphon #002, and I have moved them off the web server now to avoid any future confusion.

lol, all this arguing about what'll it'll be or won't be faster than... all that matters is that it will be better performing than the Fit I have now.

Bring it on!

 

iirc, 10# kit requires computer fiddling/change. And they probably don't want to mess with the a/t computer. But that's my WAG...

 

Same here. I would have used it on my previous post had it been available.

 

Oh, and one more thing........what would be the best way to discuss the high boost kit for the S2K with you?

 

cool

so i wonder how much modification in addition to the kit would be necessary for the sport a/t fit?

and how much $$$ for the kit and additional maint needed after installation to keep things running well... hmmm....

 

That's a good question. I wonder how often the belt(s) will need to be replaced, since, for example, the belts on their older designed kit for the 97-01 Preludes had a relatively short timespan.....from my understanding.

 

i guess i kinda instigated the whole 'what is it faster than'? so my apologies for getting the thread a bit off track.

i just figured it would be nice to get a real world comparo from chris as even whp numbers don't tell the whole story.

in my case, instead of just commiting to another 3 years of car payment to finance something significantly quicker than a stock fit like an si or gti, a 3500 supercharger to at least be able to run with those types of cars would be great, hence my questions.

again sorry everyone! and thanks to jackson racing for the informative posts!

 

The very short supercharger belt (approx. 20 in.) on the old Prelude kits (two belts because of jack shaft system) had to be changed more often because it could not dissipate heat as well as a larger belt. That is the only kit that has had that issue, and it was impossible to get around. As we have said many times about that kit, it was a tough kit to complete.

Fit:
We include an automatic tensioner with our kit (stock car uses a manual tensioner) to help increase constant belt tension and reduce belt slipping. The automatic tensioner also increases belt life.
We have had excellent wear (meaning low wear), and have had no belt related issues. But I would expect to change the belt a little more often than stock, because the supercharged belt must work a bit harder.

-Oscar Jackson Jr.

 

That totally reminds me......A friend of mine had an '01 EBP Lude w/ the JRSC kit on it and I remember him telling me that he was buying the smaller belt two at a time, just to be on the safe side.

Is the tensioner you're using similar to the auto tensioner used by Honda for the accessory belts in the K series, i.e. spring loaded? Just curious?