Tracking/AutoX Discussion
Replace my left front broken wheel stud. BTW it's is not possible to replace the front studs without removing the hubs. Also notice that my ebc green stuff pads didn't even last over a year. < did alot of auto-x events > Going to try Hawks HPS next
Yeah, but what about putting the nw on in? It's already done, but I think GE8 & GD are completely different knuckles cause I'm getting completly different answers....
None.
Made this to learn from people who've done it before.
My mission for 2012 is to do at least 2 AutoX events.
I'll do a track day once I've paid off the car. I remember reading somewhere (paraphrasing here):
If you aren't willing to scrap the car that day, a track day is not for you
And I'm adhering to that, too much debt to risk messing anything up.
Made this to learn from people who've done it before.
My mission for 2012 is to do at least 2 AutoX events.
I'll do a track day once I've paid off the car. I remember reading somewhere (paraphrasing here):
If you aren't willing to scrap the car that day, a track day is not for you
And I'm adhering to that, too much debt to risk messing anything up.
This post is awash wiuth racers with more than 200 years experience, at least 5 championships, and tha facility to test studff at will. Here';s the consensus:
yes, better wheels and especially tires
brakes yeah, but not especially imoportant for a/xing, damn right for racing or track days. Hawk is good source.
springs and shocks absolutely depending on your a/x rules.
Good air filter and fresh oil filter with 20 wt oil especially Mobil 1, and down 1/8" from full mark (so the engine has more room to pump air back and forth as the pistons move up and down.
Depending on rules choose the highest performance tires based on lap times from tirerack (ignore opinions) and actual tests at Grassroorsmotorsports magazine. Right now the Dunlop Direzza Dii's and BFG's new force tire appears best where you are klimited to 'street' tires. If not, Hoosier and others make tires that are pinned to rails in the ground.
When you choose wheels and tires go for tires a liitle less in diameter than OEM to increase your gear ratio and make up for the added weight of wider tires.. Choose wheels that are as light as you can afford and rim width suitable for your tire choice, generally same as the tread width. Do not go extra wide because that inhibits the tire from deforming the way the manufacturer intended in hard cornering,. The width found most useful here is 6" or7" and 205/50 or 205/45section tires. Choose wheels with offsets, typically 40 to 45 mm, that are less than OEM but not so much less that tht increase in track width fails to meet rules. (generally, that means 12 mm max reduction so the track width increase by one half-inch, allowable \under most rules but check.
Now we find isconnecting the front antiswayt bar reduces the Fit's enormous understeer so yo can dive into a corner's apex with alacity. You'll have to experiment with air pressures but a good starting setrupo is 38 LF, 36RF, and 40 psig both rears. Find a parking lot and test ONLY with stopwatches; opinions don 't count.
If you are allowed there are numerous good adjustable shocks available from Bilstein, Koni, KYB and others. Dial them in on that empty parking lot too. If you're allowed, lowering is a big help, just don't more more than 1.5" from OEM. You can get more balance by adding a rear antiusway bar but most rules forbid soi you have to get it done with air pressure and discoinnecting the antisway bar in fronrt.
alignment is a serious concern because the Fit has such a cheap design.. We like to believe that zero toe in tront and 2mm toein each side rears is a good start but having a mm or 2 toe out in front helps in tight corners. Don't be surprised if rear toe differs on each side and not easily changed.
Camber is assisted by those less offset wheels and if you are alloewed by rules increasing camber to 2 degrees negative is benificial.
Install good seat belts from approved IMSA,SCCA SOURCES. That seat belt will ancor when you need to be for driving a narrow trwistiung A/X course. If you choose to use your OEM belts, when you tighten them across your easte use a clothespin or clam to secure the belt on you.
Last, but not least, remove as much weight as the rules allow; usually the spare can be outb at least.
Thats a good start to work from. Keep a good log book on your car for refernce. Not only test results but alterations too.
As for the evnt: wsalk the course and memorize the circuit. When driving look up not at the hood ornament. Make corners as straight as possible, learnig each each lap just what to improve next time.
And good luck.
cheers.
Last edited by mahout; Jun 3, 2013 at 12:53 PM.
^
That is a WELL thought out and documented summary, THANK YOU!
I have been too big a chicken to disconnect the front sway bar... but after doing about everything else to maximize front end grip, that is the next step!
Believe it or not but, adjusting rear toe is not hard, and I have a solution to adjust rear camber as well!!!

More photos can be seen here... https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=41339df4a5
That is a WELL thought out and documented summary, THANK YOU!
I have been too big a chicken to disconnect the front sway bar... but after doing about everything else to maximize front end grip, that is the next step!
Believe it or not but, adjusting rear toe is not hard, and I have a solution to adjust rear camber as well!!!

More photos can be seen here... https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=41339df4a5
i run carbotech xp10's on my NSX and they work great for daily driving and track duty. they squeal and dust like mad, though. the squeal is embarrassing because people think its a maintenance issue and i don't usually flaunt that my car is a race car and that is why i am seeking out other options. i had planned on trying the Spoon pads, but being they are a wear item and special order from Japan, i might just go back to the tried and true. there is also wilwood calipers for less than half of what spoon is asking, but i like to see if stock brakes work or not before upgrading.
i am not quite there in the track phase, but i will be taking it to the track with stock base tires and suspension to get a base line... when the tires go, i will be replacing them with Toyo R1R's or Dunlops replacement for the Star SPecs. they are about $125 through tirerack in 195/55/15 and half an inch smaller in diameter than the stock. although, if i can afford it and the wheels are still available, i am going to do the Spoon's and instead be running 205/45/17's, which leaves me with the Dunlop's or Advan's. (significantly more costly) i hope to do suspension as well... mainly lower it to gain more camber. ideally the Spoon Showa damper/ spring kit, but i may have to opt for something else if its too hard to get. the MR2 bolts will be an option if that isn't enough camber... as is taking apart the rear drums to see if we can wedge a spacer in there.
i run Spoon front swaybar and it made a HUGE difference in turn in and roll... so i cannot recommend disconnecting it. i am more a big sway bar, soft suspension kinda guy though... just for the sake of livability. i guess there is such a thing as stiff suspension that is well damped, but i have not tried it yet... and usually the settings on those need stiffening for the track. regardless, when i ran my 03 WRX with swaybars and Hankook RS2's (which were worse than the old Falken RT615's, which are much worse than the current RT615k's) at Streets of Willow, I managed a 1:29 clockwise and a pro driver took almost 2 seconds off, which is fairly respectable and comparable to times set by modern sports cars. imagine if i had coilovers. Willow Springs - Streets of Willow lap records - FastestLaps.com
i am not quite there in the track phase, but i will be taking it to the track with stock base tires and suspension to get a base line... when the tires go, i will be replacing them with Toyo R1R's or Dunlops replacement for the Star SPecs. they are about $125 through tirerack in 195/55/15 and half an inch smaller in diameter than the stock. although, if i can afford it and the wheels are still available, i am going to do the Spoon's and instead be running 205/45/17's, which leaves me with the Dunlop's or Advan's. (significantly more costly) i hope to do suspension as well... mainly lower it to gain more camber. ideally the Spoon Showa damper/ spring kit, but i may have to opt for something else if its too hard to get. the MR2 bolts will be an option if that isn't enough camber... as is taking apart the rear drums to see if we can wedge a spacer in there.
i run Spoon front swaybar and it made a HUGE difference in turn in and roll... so i cannot recommend disconnecting it. i am more a big sway bar, soft suspension kinda guy though... just for the sake of livability. i guess there is such a thing as stiff suspension that is well damped, but i have not tried it yet... and usually the settings on those need stiffening for the track. regardless, when i ran my 03 WRX with swaybars and Hankook RS2's (which were worse than the old Falken RT615's, which are much worse than the current RT615k's) at Streets of Willow, I managed a 1:29 clockwise and a pro driver took almost 2 seconds off, which is fairly respectable and comparable to times set by modern sports cars. imagine if i had coilovers. Willow Springs - Streets of Willow lap records - FastestLaps.com
i hope to do suspension as well... mainly lower it to gain more camber. ideally the Spoon Showa damper/ spring kit, but i may have to opt for something else if its too hard to get. the MR2 bolts will be an option if that isn't enough camber... as is taking apart the rear drums to see if we can wedge a spacer in there.
Nothing you can do easily with the rear on GE (you do have a GE? I am assuming from your tire comment) the hub is welded on.
You ran 1:29 at SOWS with a regular WRX + sways and tires? Or was it an STI?
^
That is a WELL thought out and documented summary, THANK YOU!
I have been too big a chicken to disconnect the front sway bar... but after doing about everything else to maximize front end grip, that is the next step!
Believe it or not but, adjusting rear toe is not hard, and I have a solution to adjust rear camber as well!!!
More photos can be seen here... https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=41339df4a5
That is a WELL thought out and documented summary, THANK YOU!
I have been too big a chicken to disconnect the front sway bar... but after doing about everything else to maximize front end grip, that is the next step!
Believe it or not but, adjusting rear toe is not hard, and I have a solution to adjust rear camber as well!!!
More photos can be seen here... https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=41339df4a5
If you have an easy way to adjust toe we'd like to hear that.
Sure, standard toe shims can be used and installed behind the sutb axle just like the camber shims.
The ones I have in there look like these:

I do not know 100% which part number the race shop used when they did the alignment to my requested custom specs, but they should be readily available:
1/16th inch 99 1999 Volkswagen Passat Alignment Camber Toe Shim - Suspension - Moog, Rear - PartsGeek
3/32nds inch
Moog K90152 - Camber Toe Shim | O'Reilly Auto Parts
Mine are towards the front of the car adding toe out. They could be placed at the rear adding toe in.
The ones I have in there look like these:

I do not know 100% which part number the race shop used when they did the alignment to my requested custom specs, but they should be readily available:
1/16th inch 99 1999 Volkswagen Passat Alignment Camber Toe Shim - Suspension - Moog, Rear - PartsGeek
3/32nds inch
Moog K90152 - Camber Toe Shim | O'Reilly Auto Parts
Mine are towards the front of the car adding toe out. They could be placed at the rear adding toe in.
SUPER easy to put on. (Providing you know how to disassemble the rear brake/axle and have the right tools.)
With everything disassembled and just the big machine set screw holing the stub axle on but not tight, slip it in so the two bolt holes are still visible and then crank the set screw down to secure.
Still need to get back on an alignment rack to confirm where I am. I may actually be OVER -3.0 in the rear now according to my camber gauge app LOL
With everything disassembled and just the big machine set screw holing the stub axle on but not tight, slip it in so the two bolt holes are still visible and then crank the set screw down to secure.
Still need to get back on an alignment rack to confirm where I am. I may actually be OVER -3.0 in the rear now according to my camber gauge app LOL
App I have is called "Camber Gauge" by trackaroo in the Google play app store. Something like $2.99. No clue if Apple devices have something similar.
It is a VERY ball park use method
Make sure to calibrate it on a KNOWN level surface first... cuz initial readings of -9.0 are LOLZ
It is a VERY ball park use method
Make sure to calibrate it on a KNOWN level surface first... cuz initial readings of -9.0 are LOLZ
God damn iPhone! 
I'll look around the store thanks for the idea.
EDIT: They do have iPhone apps as well, there's one for .99 that looks simple enough just called "Camber". Anyone have any suggestions of one app that works better than the other?

I'll look around the store thanks for the idea.
EDIT: They do have iPhone apps as well, there's one for .99 that looks simple enough just called "Camber". Anyone have any suggestions of one app that works better than the other?
Last edited by Wanderer.; Jun 4, 2013 at 06:18 PM.
Clinometer has good reviews as well on forums for this application. I saw that RC Car app as well but couldn't find much info on the accuracy.
Someone did this with Clinometer and took it on a Hunter rack right after and it was <.3 degrees off, which would be fine as far as i'm concerned.
Someone did this with Clinometer and took it on a Hunter rack right after and it was <.3 degrees off, which would be fine as far as i'm concerned.


