Yup, I noticed my pedal travel is now about 1" more and not braking as linear as before. Like you I thought it was air in the system and bled two quarts of fluid with no air bubbles. It makes sense the larger caliper piston is the reason for this.
The bigger brakes definetly makes a difference in stopping power. I don't have to press the brake as hard to get the same results. On a empty parking lot with nobody around I did a 40-0mph emergency stop and engaged the ABS with little drama. It works and now I need stickier tires.
I'm running Axxis ULT pads and yes it is very sensitive.


By the way, where did you get thicker rear rotors? Are they direct fit on the T1R rear calipers with no fiment issues?

 

Hey guys go to my profile and bleed the T1R rear brakes like have shown in my profile https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/album.php?albumid=243 your pedal travel will go way down and you will have a rock solid brake pedal. Pressure only for braking…like a real race car! The whole problem is that the bleed bolt is NOT at the top of the brake cylinder cavity and leaves air in caliper piston cavity! This is a problem with the T1R design of the bracket!

After I had bled the brakes like have in my album, I see no difference in pedal travel from the stock brakes. I’ve also replaced the T1R rotors with 226.40060S slotted rotors. They fit nicer than the cheap T1R rotors and the blue ring is no longer needed for centering. These discs have the correct center hole diameter of 60-mm where the T1R discs have 61.4-mm diameter center hole. http://store.zeckhausen.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=40060&osCsid=6 q6m3sr7cduc7aou4kugojcns7

 

Oh yes, I also have Axxis ULT brake pads all the way around...man are they grippy!

They are also VERY sutty! Lots of black brake dust! Oh well, you've got to take the good with the bad.

 

This is interesting information. I'll contact Centric Parts on Monday to see if there's any way to segregate the calipers with "T27" stampings from those with the "T31" stamping. While it makes no difference to anyone buying the caliper for the application for which it was intended, it apparently doesn't work so well for this budget big brake upgrade.

What about taking a die grinder to the "T27" bracket? Would that have worked?

I'm about to experiment with this upgrade on my own 2009 Fit Sport w/NAV. So far, I haven't seen any 2nd Gen Fit owners try this, so I guess it's time to step up myself and see if it works. Will report back on whether it fits and if it has any unintended effects on the stability control system.

 

Awsome. I wish you the best on seeing if these simply bolton to a 2009 Fit as well. Keep us updated.

 

Do you think this procedure would need to be done if I'm vacuum bleeding my brakes?

 

YES! Air is still lighter than any liquid whether it’s in a vacuum or not and will be at the top of the piston cavity. You will still have that 1” pedal travel that everyone is describing that has installed the T1R rear discs if you don't bleed the rear brakes like I have described. I had that same problem/symptom and I didn’t like it, so I fixed it… I’m sharing my knowledge with you FitFreaks… your welcome J

 

Cool, wasn't sure. After bleeding with your recommended method, do you feel a bigger master cylinder is needed?

 

great writeup and discussion.

i was thinking the master cylinder needed upgrading, too, which some members mentioned, with all the bigger calipers. i upgraded the brakes on my old integra and had many of the same issues being discussed here.

quick question for those in the know: from what model are the nissin rear calipers being borrowed from for the fit rear disc conversion?

 

A larger master cylinder…that is the question.

If you get one that has a larger piston diameter, which will increase the amount of force required for you press on the brake pedal to get the same amount of stopping power. But this will also decrease the amount of pedal travel. These front brakes with the T1R rear discs are very powerful brakes and the brake pedal is very light after this mod. I’m also running Axxis ULT brake pads all the way around. I think that these pads made the brakes very grippy. That is, when you come to the end of your stop, you release brake pedal pressure to come to a smooth stop. With these pads, it is very hard to get the end-of-the-stop light pressure just right so the car does not jerk to a stop or keep on rolling. But, man do they bring your car down from speed in a hurry! A larger diameter master cylinder could theoretically make this modulation easier…but I like the light pressure required for stopping.

Part two of the question…a larger reservoir for the master cylinder.
During the design of the car’s brakes, the reservoir is sized to match the caliper volume (diameter of the piston X the brake pad material thickness) so that the brake light indicator will come on when your brake pads ware out. The only problem with this theory is that both (the front and the rear) brake pads MUST ware out at the same rate. But, your rear brake cylinder is so much smaller than your front (a lot smaller volume) this is impossible to guess at because under light braking, your rears are used more that the fronts and under heavy braking, the front are used more that the rears. Since your driving contains both heavy and light braking, there is no way to guess how much of each you will use for the life of your pads. My suggestion is to check your pads when the brake light comes on and add brake fluid as needed.

If you feel that your driving style likes a heavier braking foot, then by all means replace the brake master cylinder with one that has a larger diameter. As for the reservoir volume, I think that that is more wok than its worth. I have the Mugen front tower bar on my car, and there is just no room put a larger reservoir on that master cylinder anyway.

 

I’ll give you a $1000 if you bleed your brakes like I have shown under my profile, in my album and it does not take out 90% of that 1” of brake pedal travel…

I had the same problem…it’s all air…but in the calipers only. If that air was in a brake line, then there will be about a 2” long air bubble and make your brakes feel real spongy! Since it is at the end of the line, in the piston cavity, it just gives you a longer pedal travel.

 

I still don't have any takers on the $1000 bleed job...

Has anybody else bled the T1R rear discs like I have posted/suggested? Some reports would be great feedback! Especially the guys that said that they had 1" brake pedal travel before doing my bleed technique.

 

Hey Jodele,

I bought a SSBC force 10 big break kit from the TJIN fit and was wondering what master cylinder would work?
The SSBC kit for an integra, would a stock ITR master work? or mabe an aftermarket 1. what would be my best option.

Thanks in advance
Cam

 

How much did you pay for the force 10 big brake kit? What did it include? How much do the parts weigh? We would like a comparison...thanks in advance.

I don't know the diameter of the SSBC pistons in the caliper you bought and I don't know what rear brakes you have...so I can't make a recommendation. For your reference, the Integra Type-R calipers (used for my installation) have a 57-mm diameter piston. I used the stock master cylinder and with the Axxis ULT pads, it is quite sensitive...but I like that. A master cylinder of 1 – 2 millimeters larger would give a barely perceivably slightly less pedal travel but would require much more force for the same amount of stopping.

Oh, and I don't know what an ITR master cylinder is. If the aftermarket manufacturer says it will fit, then, go for it...but take into consideration the brake force. But why spend the money?

 

The retail price for the force 10's is 1k usd. I got the kit for 600. kit includes ss break lines rotors and calapers...

I have yet to weigh them, I am currently working on the other side of the country.... and i wont be home untill christmas...

My setup includes the stock rear drums.

if i had not already bought the force 10's i would have gone your route for shure.

 

Go for the T1R rear discs. With the bigger brakes up front, you need more power in back to ballance the brake system. Plus the brake pedal travel is reduced with the disc brakes. I like to only apply brake pressure, I don't like a brake pedal that has any travel to it all. I know that all brake drums have self adjusting mechanisims in them, but I have yet to see one work past the firs week. With rear drums, you get about 1/2" to 3/4" pedal travel. I've never measured it, that is just my guesstimate. With these front discs and T1R's rears, I get about 1/4" to 3/8" brake pedal travel...again only my guesstimate and only if the T1R discs are blead per my photo album (under my profile). If you don't blead the T1R rear discs like in my photo album (unbolt the caliper and rotate them so that the bleed bolt it at the top), you'll get about 1" pedal travel!

You never said what size your pistons are in the SSBC calipers...and we would like the weights...

 

Thanks for the info on the T1R Rears.

I am halfway across the country working right now and i wont be home untill christmas....ill check the SSBC website and see if i can find any specs.

ill shoot off a e-mail to ssbc also and see what they reccomend

 

Have you had any problems with the t1r rear disc brakes? Also, have you had any problems with the front brakes since you updated to the integra brakes?

 

The only real problems I've had with the T1R rear discs is the 1" pedal travel that I've solved with special bleeding procedures...see my albums for instructions on how to bleed the brakes. This is a design flaw of T1R. If the front of the car is called 0-degrees and the rear 180-degrees for caliper clocking around the axle, the calipers needed to be clocked at 135-degrees and not at the 180-degrees that they are. Since the brakes don't need to be bled often, this can be worked around. Otherwise, the installation went well, but the e-brake cable in the T1R kit is off a JDM Fit/Jazz, so none of the brackets fit (pun intended). You have to take off the original brackets off of the OEM e-brake cable and form them back onto the JDM cable to fit. They are made of sheet metal. They have to be straitened out (a pain in the A$$) and bent back onto the JDM cable. I did not like the quality of the discs supplied in the kit, so I've replaced them with StopTech's 226.40060SR&L discs that I got from Zeckhousen Racing. Other bonuses of these discs is that the blue aluminum concentric rings supplied in the T1R kit is not needed to center the disc onto the hub of the car and they now match the front discs too.

I’ve gone through 3 sets of front discs before going to this mod…I thought that was a reasonable reason to do the mod. The first two sets were Honda’s (original set and new set replaced under warranty), and the third set was StopTech’s stock replacement slotted discs. These lasted twice as long as the two sets of OEM discs, but they got thickness variation (vibration and pulsing under braking) too. They were just getting too hot!

My only regret is not having the money to get the Spoon calipers…I’m accepting donations though. With this mod, I will be able to replace the Type-R calipers with Spoon calipers as soon as I got the money to do this.

I’m running Axxis ULT pads all the way around my car. These pads are very grippy…and they produce a lot of black brake dust…it looks like $hit all the time. Once these pads ware out, I will be replace them with ceramic pads. The brakes won’t be as sensitive, and there will be no dust to deal with.

Bottom line… you’ve got to do the mod! BUT, to maintain the brake balance, you’ve got to do the fronts and the rears.

 

i hate the black brake dust lol... So Ceramics won't do that? HEY!!! What year integra type R caliper bracket and caliper do i need?