What is wrong with my Fit??
Ok I'll humor this some in good faith..
How many miles are on the car? Where do you get your fuel?
My expected range from Full to Half tank is anywhere between 120-240. I have pictures of both. Now that I'm approaching 44k miles, I regularly keep it between 150-190. The way you break it in is a bigger determinant of overall economy than most understand and the trick was to get it up to temperature and wring it out in 2/3 WOT pulls and then letting the engine pull full vacuum to seal the rings by slamming the throttle shut at the top of 2nd and 3rd.
I use a very thin 0w20 oil with a high moly/zddp additive, 93 oct E0 fuel and cold plugs gapped to .038. No excess weight in the car ever, where avoidable. Leave the car in gear to engine brake on the way up to lights and corners, which shuts the injectors off during that period. I don't often brake at all for corners unless conditions encourage it. I get to speed quickly and stay there as long as possible. This is on a 5MT with V-rated tires (195/55/15) on lightweight 15" +42 wheels that sit dead flush with the body panels but still tuck themselves lowered on swift springs. Note that I weigh 300 pounds, so its like having two people in the car at all times.
The car probably sees redline 5-6 times a day in 1st and second, so I do not baby it on the way to cruising speed. This is counter-intuitive for many.
I fill up every week and a half, 17 mile commute all on surface streets stop and go traffic. Most of that is spent on an East-West segregated corridor with posted limits of 55, but there are stop lights at every major intersection.
Your environment, habits of operation, fuel, commute, etc. are all just a part of it.
If indeed, there is some reason your car cannot acheive more than 28mpg (even though you have indicated it has achieved the combined rating of ~31 at least once) which is still very close to advertised combined mileage.. there is not a thing Honda could do for you. There are no guarantees on something wildly variable as fuel consumption. Far too many factors for an OE to control, especially when the end user is the main determinant.
If you want to examine whats actually happening.. get a pocketlogger and a scan gauge
Make it into a spread sheet and post up. I can read your data for you, if you are serious.
How many miles are on the car? Where do you get your fuel?
My expected range from Full to Half tank is anywhere between 120-240. I have pictures of both. Now that I'm approaching 44k miles, I regularly keep it between 150-190. The way you break it in is a bigger determinant of overall economy than most understand and the trick was to get it up to temperature and wring it out in 2/3 WOT pulls and then letting the engine pull full vacuum to seal the rings by slamming the throttle shut at the top of 2nd and 3rd.
I use a very thin 0w20 oil with a high moly/zddp additive, 93 oct E0 fuel and cold plugs gapped to .038. No excess weight in the car ever, where avoidable. Leave the car in gear to engine brake on the way up to lights and corners, which shuts the injectors off during that period. I don't often brake at all for corners unless conditions encourage it. I get to speed quickly and stay there as long as possible. This is on a 5MT with V-rated tires (195/55/15) on lightweight 15" +42 wheels that sit dead flush with the body panels but still tuck themselves lowered on swift springs. Note that I weigh 300 pounds, so its like having two people in the car at all times.
The car probably sees redline 5-6 times a day in 1st and second, so I do not baby it on the way to cruising speed. This is counter-intuitive for many.
I fill up every week and a half, 17 mile commute all on surface streets stop and go traffic. Most of that is spent on an East-West segregated corridor with posted limits of 55, but there are stop lights at every major intersection.
Your environment, habits of operation, fuel, commute, etc. are all just a part of it.
If indeed, there is some reason your car cannot acheive more than 28mpg (even though you have indicated it has achieved the combined rating of ~31 at least once) which is still very close to advertised combined mileage.. there is not a thing Honda could do for you. There are no guarantees on something wildly variable as fuel consumption. Far too many factors for an OE to control, especially when the end user is the main determinant.
If you want to examine whats actually happening.. get a pocketlogger and a scan gauge
Make it into a spread sheet and post up. I can read your data for you, if you are serious.
Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; Jul 13, 2012 at 10:39 AM.
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 105
From: Hampstead, MD
It's okay to be disappointed, but to come on a Fit enthusiast board and just start saying honda lies, etc. etc. really isn't the way to go about trying to solve your problems. Especially when you're actually within the range that is estimated you'd be getting. I'm not in love with the car, I like it and am enjoying it.
But, it's a cheap econobox - which is why I bought it, and there are a lot of things Honda can improve upon and I don't mind pointing them out. The paint quality is lacking, the engine bay could be better laid out to get to important changeables like sparks, and it terribly needs a more powerful engine, and a 6th gear, both of which would actually probably improve the fuel economy. The interior plastics also scratch if you just look their way, which I found surprising. I've already got scratches inside on the door panels, my 10 year old car had none and I'd kick it open with my feet. But, it's a cheap car so I probably can't expect better.
Mechanical devices are not all equal, despite modern techniques they're still subject to tolerances and variance. Some cars will get slightly better mileage, some cars will get slightly less. My car is getting more than estimated mileage, unfortunately yours is getting less. You've got 2 choices - slow down on the highway, or trade the car in for something else. But don't be surprised if you do get a 40MPG estimated car you're still getting the exact same mileage.
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 105
From: Hampstead, MD
Don't get a scan gauge. Get a bluetooth OBD dongle and use Torque on your smartphone. Less than half the price, more functionality.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
From: Little Rock, Arkansas USA
I'm still not hitting even the combined mileage estimate. And remember, most of my driving is interstate, where even there if I set cruise at 68mph, the mpg meter constantly averages just over 40mpg. So explain how the 20% of driving I do that is city, makes up 80% of the fuel mileage I am getting.
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 105
From: Hampstead, MD
And yes, it logs and even will do stuff like show you on google maps exactly where a fault code trips. Logs are exportable to Excel, and can be exported in real time to web servers if you want.
Last edited by SgtBaxter; Jul 13, 2012 at 12:41 PM.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
From: Little Rock, Arkansas USA
I guess the bigger question at this point is what do you want done. Your car is working as designed with no obvious fault that you have described here. (clearly there could be something like a stuck brake caliper affecting millage but there's been nothing like that described). You stubbornly refuse to accept the idea that your driving methods can affect shift patterns and millage numbers and get extremely annoyed when anyone suggests that you need to adjust your driving methods.
The car is clearly a bad match with your style of driving. Continuing to come on here and insist that we tell you the magic button to better fuel economy over looking at your own habits means that you won't change anything. Buy a different car.
The car is clearly a bad match with your style of driving. Continuing to come on here and insist that we tell you the magic button to better fuel economy over looking at your own habits means that you won't change anything. Buy a different car.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
From: Little Rock, Arkansas USA
Ok I'll humor this some in good faith..
How many miles are on the car? Where do you get your fuel?
My expected range from Full to Half tank is anywhere between 120-240. I have pictures of both. Now that I'm approaching 44k miles, I regularly keep it between 150-190. The way you break it in is a bigger determinant of overall economy than most understand and the trick was to get it up to temperature and wring it out in 2/3 WOT pulls and then letting the engine pull full vacuum to seal the rings by slamming the throttle shut at the top of 2nd and 3rd.
I use a very thin 0w20 oil with a high moly/zddp additive, 93 oct E0 fuel and cold plugs gapped to .038. No excess weight in the car ever, where avoidable. Leave the car in gear to engine brake on the way up to lights and corners, which shuts the injectors off during that period. I don't often brake at all for corners unless conditions encourage it. I get to speed quickly and stay there as long as possible. This is on a 5MT with V-rated tires (195/55/15) on lightweight 15" +42 wheels that sit dead flush with the body panels but still tuck themselves lowered on swift springs. Note that I weigh 300 pounds, so its like having two people in the car at all times.
The car probably sees redline 5-6 times a day in 1st and second, so I do not baby it on the way to cruising speed. This is counter-intuitive for many.
I fill up every week and a half, 17 mile commute all on surface streets stop and go traffic. Most of that is spent on an East-West segregated corridor with posted limits of 55, but there are stop lights at every major intersection.
Your environment, habits of operation, fuel, commute, etc. are all just a part of it.
If indeed, there is some reason your car cannot acheive more than 28mpg (even though you have indicated it has achieved the combined rating of ~31 at least once) which is still very close to advertised combined mileage.. there is not a thing Honda could do for you. There are no guarantees on something wildly variable as fuel consumption. Far too many factors for an OE to control, especially when the end user is the main determinant.
If you want to examine whats actually happening.. get a pocketlogger and a scan gauge
Make it into a spread sheet and post up. I can read your data for you, if you are serious.
How many miles are on the car? Where do you get your fuel?
My expected range from Full to Half tank is anywhere between 120-240. I have pictures of both. Now that I'm approaching 44k miles, I regularly keep it between 150-190. The way you break it in is a bigger determinant of overall economy than most understand and the trick was to get it up to temperature and wring it out in 2/3 WOT pulls and then letting the engine pull full vacuum to seal the rings by slamming the throttle shut at the top of 2nd and 3rd.
I use a very thin 0w20 oil with a high moly/zddp additive, 93 oct E0 fuel and cold plugs gapped to .038. No excess weight in the car ever, where avoidable. Leave the car in gear to engine brake on the way up to lights and corners, which shuts the injectors off during that period. I don't often brake at all for corners unless conditions encourage it. I get to speed quickly and stay there as long as possible. This is on a 5MT with V-rated tires (195/55/15) on lightweight 15" +42 wheels that sit dead flush with the body panels but still tuck themselves lowered on swift springs. Note that I weigh 300 pounds, so its like having two people in the car at all times.
The car probably sees redline 5-6 times a day in 1st and second, so I do not baby it on the way to cruising speed. This is counter-intuitive for many.
I fill up every week and a half, 17 mile commute all on surface streets stop and go traffic. Most of that is spent on an East-West segregated corridor with posted limits of 55, but there are stop lights at every major intersection.
Your environment, habits of operation, fuel, commute, etc. are all just a part of it.
If indeed, there is some reason your car cannot acheive more than 28mpg (even though you have indicated it has achieved the combined rating of ~31 at least once) which is still very close to advertised combined mileage.. there is not a thing Honda could do for you. There are no guarantees on something wildly variable as fuel consumption. Far too many factors for an OE to control, especially when the end user is the main determinant.
If you want to examine whats actually happening.. get a pocketlogger and a scan gauge
Make it into a spread sheet and post up. I can read your data for you, if you are serious.
IF I took you up on this, and proved that I cannot get over 30mpg regardless of anything, would you then just resort to "well you just can't drive it right" like everyone else?
Last edited by seb9316; Jul 13, 2012 at 01:05 PM.
28 is acceptable for the range provided. Now if you want me to continue to work with you on this you're gonna have to chill the f*ck out.
Actual data from the ECU will tell me more than a 10,000 word essay. I design, build, tune and race cars for myself, family, friends and clients this is the sort of thing I deal with routinely.
You should try coming into this situation with an understanding that there is a potential that what you feel and assert may not be true. You feel like you've been wronged somehow, I disagree.
I think things can be improved, certainly, but you are not owed anything by Honda (let alone some sort of apology) because you are not happy with getting the City rating as your combined total. The EPA numbers are not gospel and they do not reflect actual driving. They are a spec test designed with good intentions but they are by no means ideal or comprehensive.
If you can turn off the attitude, leave out the fluff and directly address what I am asking I will work with you.
If you can not be an adult.. have a nice day, consider getting a car you are happy with and good luck to you in future pursuits.
That is all I have to say at this point.
Actual data from the ECU will tell me more than a 10,000 word essay. I design, build, tune and race cars for myself, family, friends and clients this is the sort of thing I deal with routinely.
You should try coming into this situation with an understanding that there is a potential that what you feel and assert may not be true. You feel like you've been wronged somehow, I disagree.
I think things can be improved, certainly, but you are not owed anything by Honda (let alone some sort of apology) because you are not happy with getting the City rating as your combined total. The EPA numbers are not gospel and they do not reflect actual driving. They are a spec test designed with good intentions but they are by no means ideal or comprehensive.
If you can turn off the attitude, leave out the fluff and directly address what I am asking I will work with you.
If you can not be an adult.. have a nice day, consider getting a car you are happy with and good luck to you in future pursuits.
That is all I have to say at this point.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
From: Little Rock, Arkansas USA
The problem people have with your rant is that your numbers are actually right in line with Honda's estimates, plus the margin of error. Honda claims 35MPG highway, 28 City and 31 combined. Unless you do 100% highway driving, which nobody does, then the combined number is what you can expect, plus or minus ~20% for margin of error. That's what you're getting!
It's okay to be disappointed, but to come on a Fit enthusiast board and just start saying honda lies, etc. etc. really isn't the way to go about trying to solve your problems. Especially when you're actually within the range that is estimated you'd be getting. I'm not in love with the car, I like it and am enjoying it.
But, it's a cheap econobox - which is why I bought it, and there are a lot of things Honda can improve upon and I don't mind pointing them out. The paint quality is lacking, the engine bay could be better laid out to get to important changeables like sparks, and it terribly needs a more powerful engine, and a 6th gear, both of which would actually probably improve the fuel economy. The interior plastics also scratch if you just look their way, which I found surprising. I've already got scratches inside on the door panels, my 10 year old car had none and I'd kick it open with my feet. But, it's a cheap car so I probably can't expect better.
Mechanical devices are not all equal, despite modern techniques they're still subject to tolerances and variance. Some cars will get slightly better mileage, some cars will get slightly less. My car is getting more than estimated mileage, unfortunately yours is getting less. You've got 2 choices - slow down on the highway, or trade the car in for something else. But don't be surprised if you do get a 40MPG estimated car you're still getting the exact same mileage.
It's okay to be disappointed, but to come on a Fit enthusiast board and just start saying honda lies, etc. etc. really isn't the way to go about trying to solve your problems. Especially when you're actually within the range that is estimated you'd be getting. I'm not in love with the car, I like it and am enjoying it.
But, it's a cheap econobox - which is why I bought it, and there are a lot of things Honda can improve upon and I don't mind pointing them out. The paint quality is lacking, the engine bay could be better laid out to get to important changeables like sparks, and it terribly needs a more powerful engine, and a 6th gear, both of which would actually probably improve the fuel economy. The interior plastics also scratch if you just look their way, which I found surprising. I've already got scratches inside on the door panels, my 10 year old car had none and I'd kick it open with my feet. But, it's a cheap car so I probably can't expect better.
Mechanical devices are not all equal, despite modern techniques they're still subject to tolerances and variance. Some cars will get slightly better mileage, some cars will get slightly less. My car is getting more than estimated mileage, unfortunately yours is getting less. You've got 2 choices - slow down on the highway, or trade the car in for something else. But don't be surprised if you do get a 40MPG estimated car you're still getting the exact same mileage.
And I didn't come on here to attack Honda or just bitching, my very first post was a reasonable question about why this is happening and any suggestions on how to fix it. But what I noticed was it was ONLY after most posters on here had simply run out of ideas that they started accusing me of not driving it right and/or started claiming that my fuel mileage was completely acceptable. That would piss ANYONE off. And they keep using this excuse even after I have reasonably tried to change my driving habits. It's not making any difference, that doesn't mean its suddenly acceptable! All that makes me end up doing is blaming Honda for lying, or OK--GROSSLY EXAGGERATING.
By the way how DO you change the spark plugs? Do you really have to remove the windshield cowling?? Wow.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
From: Little Rock, Arkansas USA
Well no, not everyone has a smart phone. But if you do dongle and phone is way to go.
And yes, it logs and even will do stuff like show you on google maps exactly where a fault code trips. Logs are exportable to Excel, and can be exported in real time to web servers if you want.
And yes, it logs and even will do stuff like show you on google maps exactly where a fault code trips. Logs are exportable to Excel, and can be exported in real time to web servers if you want.
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 105
From: Hampstead, MD
No offense, but I'd like my Fit too if I was averaging 38mpg like I think you said you were a while back.
And I didn't come on here to attack Honda or just bitching, my very first post was a reasonable question about why this is happening and any suggestions on how to fix it. But what I noticed was it was ONLY after most posters on here had simply run out of ideas that they started accusing me of not driving it right and/or started claiming that my fuel mileage was completely acceptable. That would piss ANYONE off. And they keep using this excuse even after I have reasonably tried to change my driving habits. It's not making any difference, that doesn't mean its suddenly acceptable! All that makes me end up doing is blaming Honda for lying, or OK--GROSSLY EXAGGERATING.
By the way how DO you change the spark plugs? Do you really have to remove the windshield cowling?? Wow.
And I didn't come on here to attack Honda or just bitching, my very first post was a reasonable question about why this is happening and any suggestions on how to fix it. But what I noticed was it was ONLY after most posters on here had simply run out of ideas that they started accusing me of not driving it right and/or started claiming that my fuel mileage was completely acceptable. That would piss ANYONE off. And they keep using this excuse even after I have reasonably tried to change my driving habits. It's not making any difference, that doesn't mean its suddenly acceptable! All that makes me end up doing is blaming Honda for lying, or OK--GROSSLY EXAGGERATING.
By the way how DO you change the spark plugs? Do you really have to remove the windshield cowling?? Wow.
As for plugs, no way you'd really have to remove the cowling, but the intake has to come off. Removing the cowling would make it easier but I could probably do it faster leaving it on. My Altima was similar, the back plugs (it was a horizontally mounted V6) covered by the intake which had to be removed. They even stated you had to drain the coolant to do so, but they're full of shit. The intake could be unbolted and moved across the engine bay without removing it fully.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
From: Little Rock, Arkansas USA
28 is acceptable for the range provided. Now if you want me to continue to work with you on this you're gonna have to chill the f*ck out.
Actual data from the ECU will tell me more than a 10,000 word essay. I design, build, tune and race cars for myself, family, friends and clients this is the sort of thing I deal with routinely.
You should try coming into this situation with an understanding that there is a potential that what you feel and assert may not be true. You feel like you've been wronged somehow, I disagree.
I think things can be improved, certainly, but you are not owed anything by Honda (let alone some sort of apology) because you are not happy with getting the City rating as your combined total. The EPA numbers are not gospel and they do not reflect actual driving. They are a spec test designed with good intentions but they are by no means ideal or comprehensive.
If you can turn off the attitude, leave out the fluff and directly address what I am asking I will work with you.
If you can not be an adult.. have a nice day, consider getting a car you are happy with and good luck to you in future pursuits.
That is all I have to say at this point.
Actual data from the ECU will tell me more than a 10,000 word essay. I design, build, tune and race cars for myself, family, friends and clients this is the sort of thing I deal with routinely.
You should try coming into this situation with an understanding that there is a potential that what you feel and assert may not be true. You feel like you've been wronged somehow, I disagree.
I think things can be improved, certainly, but you are not owed anything by Honda (let alone some sort of apology) because you are not happy with getting the City rating as your combined total. The EPA numbers are not gospel and they do not reflect actual driving. They are a spec test designed with good intentions but they are by no means ideal or comprehensive.
If you can turn off the attitude, leave out the fluff and directly address what I am asking I will work with you.
If you can not be an adult.. have a nice day, consider getting a car you are happy with and good luck to you in future pursuits.
That is all I have to say at this point.
I'll ignore your comment about "not being an adult" since its everyone else on here that's not being an adult by giving me the same excuse over and over, and ask you what you need from the ECU and how I get it.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
From: Little Rock, Arkansas USA
Oh I know, I take people at face value generally and try to offer help. I don't suck the teat of any brand or model, they all have good points and bad points, and the best thing you can do for your favorite brand is be critical of it so they improve.
As for plugs, no way you'd really have to remove the cowling, but the intake has to come off. Removing the cowling would make it easier but I could probably do it faster leaving it on. My Altima was similar, the back plugs (it was a horizontally mounted V6) covered by the intake which had to be removed. They even stated you had to drain the coolant to do so, but they're full of shit. The intake could be unbolted and moved across the engine bay without removing it fully.
As for plugs, no way you'd really have to remove the cowling, but the intake has to come off. Removing the cowling would make it easier but I could probably do it faster leaving it on. My Altima was similar, the back plugs (it was a horizontally mounted V6) covered by the intake which had to be removed. They even stated you had to drain the coolant to do so, but they're full of shit. The intake could be unbolted and moved across the engine bay without removing it fully.
So as summer is here now and its definatly much warmer than it was say a month ago ,is it uncommon to see a reduction in mpg when the air becomes hot and dry?? My fit loves cool temps ~70° but 100° not so much...
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 105
From: Hampstead, MD
Alternately you can get wifi dongles too.
I haven't kept up with this thread since page 1, but it's been a real page-turner since lol. 18 pages of total irrelevance. I'm surprised it hasn't been shut down yet, especially with all the recent trolling.
I'm just disappointed at the total lack of gifs to keep it entertaining. I mean wtf, people.
I'm just disappointed at the total lack of gifs to keep it entertaining. I mean wtf, people.