New Project..
ya i just dont kno exactly what he wants cuz its his car haha but i had a question, if a maf giving a signal off x amount of volts for x amount of air, tells the ecu to run fine. then can u trick the ecu by using a maf that gives off that volt reading for 2x air? reason being is i have a tsx sitting in the garage and i look at the maf and its flow characteristics are for a 2.4 but yet its volts are still in .1 to 1 volt (?) and my ge8 maf flows for a 1.5 but with a turbo what if i had the same flow ratting as the tsx? could i "trick" my ecu to think its na but running a turbo? i would change the injectors and supporting mods but the main concern is can u trick the ecu using sensors made for higher flow ratings? i kno i have a map sensor too but i hear u can get 1's made for boosted applications. with all this wouldnt the ecu believe its stock but still run the car even under boost?
btw how loud is ur 4g63 valvetrain? my friends got a bit of noise, but it seems like when oil gets up in the head it quiets up but idk? and how much psi on the oil gauge while cruising/ high rpm/ idle? if u dont mind?
Thanks!
Well as far as your friends car, the stuff I listed with the exception of the turbo are MANDATORY to make 300whp or more.
As for the rest.. there is a lot going on in that post. To put it simply: no that would not be the way to go.
It would result in a car that, if it runs at all would run like complete crap. I would be terrified to try and boost on a setup like that, to be frank.
Which one? lol All of them tick in some form or another, at least one still ticks when warm. Depends on the HLA under the valvecover as well. I have a Kiggly HLA in my "favorite" motor.
I use the OFH relief valve and different oil weights to keep pressure where I need it.
Two of my engines (about to be three) don't have the OE balance shafts anymore. One doesn't have the Oil squirters because it was a non turbo block originally.
These engines with no b-shafts have considerably greater pressure at the OFH.
I use restrictors and in-line filters to tweak the oil pressure at the turbo according to their needs. Ball bearing turbos and Journal bearing turbos typically have distinctly different requirements, and then again from manufacturer to manufacturer they will vary.
Does he have a stock oil pressure gauge that he is referencing? Or is he using a remote sending unit and a seperate gauge? If so where is the sensor mounted? The cylinder head? I'm guessing stock lifters?
ya i just dont kno exactly what he wants cuz its his car haha
but i had a question, if a maf giving a signal off x amount of volts for x amount of air, tells the ecu to run fine. then can u trick the ecu by using a maf that gives off that volt reading for 2x air? reason being is i have a tsx sitting in the garage and i look at the maf and its flow characteristics are for a 2.4 but yet its volts are still in .1 to 1 volt (?) and my ge8 maf flows for a 1.5 but with a turbo what if i had the same flow ratting as the tsx? could i "trick" my ecu to think its na but running a turbo? i would change the injectors and supporting mods but the main concern is can u trick the ecu using sensors made for higher flow ratings? i kno i have a map sensor too but i hear u can get 1's made for boosted applications. with all this wouldnt the ecu believe its stock but still run the car even under boost?
but i had a question, if a maf giving a signal off x amount of volts for x amount of air, tells the ecu to run fine. then can u trick the ecu by using a maf that gives off that volt reading for 2x air? reason being is i have a tsx sitting in the garage and i look at the maf and its flow characteristics are for a 2.4 but yet its volts are still in .1 to 1 volt (?) and my ge8 maf flows for a 1.5 but with a turbo what if i had the same flow ratting as the tsx? could i "trick" my ecu to think its na but running a turbo? i would change the injectors and supporting mods but the main concern is can u trick the ecu using sensors made for higher flow ratings? i kno i have a map sensor too but i hear u can get 1's made for boosted applications. with all this wouldnt the ecu believe its stock but still run the car even under boost?
As for the rest.. there is a lot going on in that post. To put it simply: no that would not be the way to go.
It would result in a car that, if it runs at all would run like complete crap. I would be terrified to try and boost on a setup like that, to be frank.
I use the OFH relief valve and different oil weights to keep pressure where I need it.
Two of my engines (about to be three) don't have the OE balance shafts anymore. One doesn't have the Oil squirters because it was a non turbo block originally.
These engines with no b-shafts have considerably greater pressure at the OFH.
I use restrictors and in-line filters to tweak the oil pressure at the turbo according to their needs. Ball bearing turbos and Journal bearing turbos typically have distinctly different requirements, and then again from manufacturer to manufacturer they will vary.
Does he have a stock oil pressure gauge that he is referencing? Or is he using a remote sending unit and a seperate gauge? If so where is the sensor mounted? The cylinder head? I'm guessing stock lifters?
Progress update:
Fresh out of storage the back up engine about to go on the hoist for the trans swap and clutch change
Just pulled the engine out of the new car to prep it for my "favorite" motor and some other goodies
Changing the clutch on the back up engine, will post pics of the completely trashed disc that came out of this one!
The hooligans helping me, including the one who is buying my beloved Laser. Race trans is up by the red jack stands on the left, in need of a throw out bearing before it can go in the new Eclipse
Just finished the trans swap while hooligan #1 texts his lady haha
Engine with Evo 3 16G Turbo and Web 546/547 Cams dropped in the Laser, as it gets prepped for sale to a friend. She will be missed.
Fresh out of storage the back up engine about to go on the hoist for the trans swap and clutch change
Just pulled the engine out of the new car to prep it for my "favorite" motor and some other goodies
Changing the clutch on the back up engine, will post pics of the completely trashed disc that came out of this one!
The hooligans helping me, including the one who is buying my beloved Laser. Race trans is up by the red jack stands on the left, in need of a throw out bearing before it can go in the new Eclipse
Just finished the trans swap while hooligan #1 texts his lady haha
Engine with Evo 3 16G Turbo and Web 546/547 Cams dropped in the Laser, as it gets prepped for sale to a friend. She will be missed.
ok so for an example the ge8 has a maf sensor, and when air flow is too great voltage reading would cause the ecu to not have a pre-set fuel map for givin amount of air.... that would cause the car to run bad, but what would you do to "trick" the ecu from seeing boost? couldnt i run in closed loop idle and when getting on the gas and boosting have close to stock sensor readings? maybe like how they run evo mafs w/ injectors for the 1g just an idea i have. i think the stock ecu does a great job at controlling the motor, i just dont see why having the sensors report normal readings on a turbo car wouldnt work. i am mechanically inclined but i have never tuned a car/ ge8 doesnt have tunable ecu... so i am worried about adding a turbo. i have seen lyon's turbo and i plan on making 1 similar but i would like to kno if my own ideas are possible? in theory it sounds good but like i said, never done it so idk.
as for my friends 1g we are using the stock sender unit, his gauge is pretty responsive to rpm but it always seems to max out oil psi pretty fast. and he has his balance shafts, ect but if you could explain some of your abreviasions it would be nice. i dont own a 1g so i dont kno everything about them but ya.
as for my friends 1g we are using the stock sender unit, his gauge is pretty responsive to rpm but it always seems to max out oil psi pretty fast. and he has his balance shafts, ect but if you could explain some of your abreviasions it would be nice. i dont own a 1g so i dont kno everything about them but ya.
The GE8 ECU and the 1G and even 2G DSM ECU are worlds apart.
Your best bet is to do what I and everyone else who didn't but a pre-fab turbo kit did for management and get the FIC-6.
Having the sensors misrepresent what's going on will lead to you blowing up your motor. Running 8psi on pump gas in the summer while the ECU thinks it's only at 0psi is asking to lift a head, bend a rod, crack a piston, melt some valves and/or potentially window the block. Just take my word for it, you don't want to do that.
But if it is any consolation, you are atleast thinking on a level that leaves me encouraged about you doing your own FI system. Just get a proper management system, a Wideband UEGO Controller/sensor of some sort and make sure whatever you do that you use the biggest intercooler you can fit, and that the Fuel system can provide at least 20-30% more fuel than the turbo could ever use.
Above all research is your best friend!
The terms/abbreviations I am using are actually universal and not 1G specific, so you may find them useful in the future with other cars:
UEGO - Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen
HLA - Hydraulic Lash Adjuster
OFH - Oil Filter Housing
OE - Original Equipement
FI - Forced Induction
Your best bet is to do what I and everyone else who didn't but a pre-fab turbo kit did for management and get the FIC-6.
Having the sensors misrepresent what's going on will lead to you blowing up your motor. Running 8psi on pump gas in the summer while the ECU thinks it's only at 0psi is asking to lift a head, bend a rod, crack a piston, melt some valves and/or potentially window the block. Just take my word for it, you don't want to do that.
But if it is any consolation, you are atleast thinking on a level that leaves me encouraged about you doing your own FI system. Just get a proper management system, a Wideband UEGO Controller/sensor of some sort and make sure whatever you do that you use the biggest intercooler you can fit, and that the Fuel system can provide at least 20-30% more fuel than the turbo could ever use.
Above all research is your best friend!
The terms/abbreviations I am using are actually universal and not 1G specific, so you may find them useful in the future with other cars:
UEGO - Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen
HLA - Hydraulic Lash Adjuster
OFH - Oil Filter Housing
OE - Original Equipement
FI - Forced Induction
but what if i knew the amount of air and fuel required? like data logging my car now then running a bigger maf and seeing the volt drop? my car would still be sucking up the same amount of air just thinking its less? - so add air to equal normal volt readings? then take that measurement and add fuel until stoich?(or slightly rich to cool it down) i just dont see y i cant run a "manual" tune, like a fpr, rsx injectors, fmu, and a turbo with known flow out put to add on my na to = flow of like a k series? i kno u say it cant be done but i just dont see why... and i probably will run a piggy back like lyon did, but i want my theory to work :'(
Well I guess you are just going to have to see for yourself because you won't take my word for it. What do I know after all?
Among other things you likely have not taken into consideration, we have a returnless style fuel system where the stock fpr is actually in the stock pump hanger assembly.
Basically you are trying to make a very crude approximation of a small part of what the piggy back lets you control and compensate for. For the amount of time and money you would waste trying to do it your way as well as the sacrifice in ability to actually control, monitor and manipulate what's going on you are just trying to mask airflow instead of addressing the need to adjust timing and fueling.
You do realize that the FIC is letting the computer run the show and just tweaks what the ECU is seeing but in a much more accurate, precise and consistent fashion with a range of flexibility? Not to mention that it can do so across a broader range of parameters than you would otherwise be privy too.
Save your money and your motor and just do it right the first time.
The FIC can be had for cheap and took me ten minutes to install.
Among other things you likely have not taken into consideration, we have a returnless style fuel system where the stock fpr is actually in the stock pump hanger assembly.
Basically you are trying to make a very crude approximation of a small part of what the piggy back lets you control and compensate for. For the amount of time and money you would waste trying to do it your way as well as the sacrifice in ability to actually control, monitor and manipulate what's going on you are just trying to mask airflow instead of addressing the need to adjust timing and fueling.
You do realize that the FIC is letting the computer run the show and just tweaks what the ECU is seeing but in a much more accurate, precise and consistent fashion with a range of flexibility? Not to mention that it can do so across a broader range of parameters than you would otherwise be privy too.
Save your money and your motor and just do it right the first time.
The FIC can be had for cheap and took me ten minutes to install.
Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; Aug 2, 2011 at 03:53 AM.
haha i dont mean to upset any1 and i ask these things and i listen to ur response but u told me it willntwork but not y. i under stand the fic is a "trick computer" i just dont see y u have to have an ecu to trick the car, y does it matter if its an ecu to confuse the car or its sensors? like i said i never tuned a car but this doesnt mean im not listening. i just dont see y it has to be done 1 way. im wierd i want to be an engineer so i kinda think of wierd way of getting stuff done. i kno it means alot to have timing and fuel but wouldnt the stock ecu try to control these? well at least timing and duration of the injectors. i would handle injector size and fuel pressure. i wouldnt try to turbo a car with out data logging, i feel its a necessary to see flow charecteristics of air and fuel. i kno it would be hard to increase fuel as boost builds but if the tps, maf, o2, and map sensor are all logged at stock then "coppied" while turbo wouldnt it run?
Well I guess you are just going to have to see for yourself because you won't take my word for it. What do I know after all?
Among other things you likely have not taken into consideration, we have a returnless style fuel system where the stock fpr is actually in the stock pump hanger assembly.
Basically you are trying to make a very crude approximation of a small part of what the piggy back lets you control and compensate for. For the amount of time and money you would waste trying to do it your way as well as the sacrifice in ability to actually control, monitor and manipulate what's going on you are just trying to mask airflow instead of addressing the need to adjust timing and fueling.
You do realize that the FIC is letting the computer run the show and just tweaks what the ECU is seeing but in a much more accurate, precise and consistent fashion with a range of flexibility? Not to mention that it can do so across a broader range of parameters than you would otherwise be privy too.
Save your money and your motor and just do it right the first time.
The FIC can be had for cheap and took me ten minutes to install.
Among other things you likely have not taken into consideration, we have a returnless style fuel system where the stock fpr is actually in the stock pump hanger assembly.
Basically you are trying to make a very crude approximation of a small part of what the piggy back lets you control and compensate for. For the amount of time and money you would waste trying to do it your way as well as the sacrifice in ability to actually control, monitor and manipulate what's going on you are just trying to mask airflow instead of addressing the need to adjust timing and fueling.
You do realize that the FIC is letting the computer run the show and just tweaks what the ECU is seeing but in a much more accurate, precise and consistent fashion with a range of flexibility? Not to mention that it can do so across a broader range of parameters than you would otherwise be privy too.
Save your money and your motor and just do it right the first time.
The FIC can be had for cheap and took me ten minutes to install.
ge8 has 1 sided fuel rail? no return pressure lines?
10 Minutes!!! You must be a very flexible big guy, I felt like I was standing on my head when I removed mine, it was a lot easier when I put it back in... Everything becomes difficult when you get old and arthritic.. If I had only known It would be so bad I wouldn't have done so many things that I did that I could shake off then and am feeling almost every day now... Morphine three times a day helps but it also make me stupid, maybe that is why I have trouble doing things.
My old car is officially up for sale now.
Had a TON of offers, but figured I would give an FF.net member a chance to pick up a fast reliable car on the cheap. Price can be flexible depending on what parts you want with it. Or for $2600 I will give you a bunch of extra go fast goodies including a snow performance meth kit with progressive controller, a set of either Mitsu OEM F/D Cams, HKS 272* cams or Web 546/547 cams, a "Big" MHI 16G turbo, a bolt in walbro 255lph HP pump, a big front mount intercooler, 3" heat wrapped Megan Racing downpipe, 3 large boxes full of OE parts and a bunch of stuff I am sure I am forgetting.
Picture taken this afternoon
This is a steal, the car is a true sleeper. The body is not as nice as the picture makes it out to be honest.
Chassis has 126k on it, the motor included was rebuilt 25k miles ago. Trans has only ever had mitsu synchromesh or redline shockproof gear oil.
Motor/Turbo have not run more than 15psi since rebuild. Which is nothing. This motor is good for 600awhp if you spend the ~$90 for the ARP Headstuds I never bothered to put in. All you have to do is pull the valvecover by removing the 9 or so 10mm bolts holding it on, cams can stay in. Takes about 20 minutes. Just do them one by one starting outside in.
$2600 for everything including a running car is less than you would pay for a turbo kit for your fit which would make half the power this thing does on stock everything with a boost controller set to 15psi. Weighs the same as a GE8...
I have a dyno sheet done on this motor I will post up later showing 240whp/250lb-ft completely stock.
No low ball offers. Serious inquiries only. No "dibs" BS, money talks. I don't NEED to sell.
Had a TON of offers, but figured I would give an FF.net member a chance to pick up a fast reliable car on the cheap. Price can be flexible depending on what parts you want with it. Or for $2600 I will give you a bunch of extra go fast goodies including a snow performance meth kit with progressive controller, a set of either Mitsu OEM F/D Cams, HKS 272* cams or Web 546/547 cams, a "Big" MHI 16G turbo, a bolt in walbro 255lph HP pump, a big front mount intercooler, 3" heat wrapped Megan Racing downpipe, 3 large boxes full of OE parts and a bunch of stuff I am sure I am forgetting.
Picture taken this afternoon
This is a steal, the car is a true sleeper. The body is not as nice as the picture makes it out to be honest.
Chassis has 126k on it, the motor included was rebuilt 25k miles ago. Trans has only ever had mitsu synchromesh or redline shockproof gear oil.
Motor/Turbo have not run more than 15psi since rebuild. Which is nothing. This motor is good for 600awhp if you spend the ~$90 for the ARP Headstuds I never bothered to put in. All you have to do is pull the valvecover by removing the 9 or so 10mm bolts holding it on, cams can stay in. Takes about 20 minutes. Just do them one by one starting outside in.
$2600 for everything including a running car is less than you would pay for a turbo kit for your fit which would make half the power this thing does on stock everything with a boost controller set to 15psi. Weighs the same as a GE8...
I have a dyno sheet done on this motor I will post up later showing 240whp/250lb-ft completely stock.
No low ball offers. Serious inquiries only. No "dibs" BS, money talks. I don't NEED to sell.
Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; Aug 4, 2011 at 02:18 AM.
Thanks!
Also that dyno chart I finally found, turns out it was 250whp/260wtq on stock everything:
Git you some injectors, boost controller, an S-AFC, and I'll provide a fuel pump. This car will do high 11s with a good driver as it sits now.
Also that dyno chart I finally found, turns out it was 250whp/260wtq on stock everything:
Git you some injectors, boost controller, an S-AFC, and I'll provide a fuel pump. This car will do high 11s with a good driver as it sits now.
I would have been up there with bells on my toes for that car if I was able to... I have managed to sleep over 12 hours 2 nights in a row so maybe when the temperatures drop I will be able to do all of the work I need to do on my Fit.. I have told my wife that I am going to need to get a more comfortable car or maybe take my Safari cargo van off of the jack stands, put some Volvo seats in it and finish the performance mods that I started on it.....
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,304
From: Illinois
DSM, I hope you sell the car, I would have tried to get it put I have 3 cars to get rid of before thinking of getting a new one. There where a lot of cool cars at the show yesterday. If I knew about it sooner I would have told you and it would have been a place to sell it quickly. I made a walk around and stayed a few hours but left early, Met Klasse Act but it was too loud and Hot to say put.
Edit: Had a great time and looking forward to next year. Hope to have my oldest sons car done by then but would have to trailer it.
Edit: Had a great time and looking forward to next year. Hope to have my oldest sons car done by then but would have to trailer it.
Last edited by SilverBullet; Aug 7, 2011 at 03:28 PM.
I would have been up there with bells on my toes for that car if I was able to... I have managed to sleep over 12 hours 2 nights in a row so maybe when the temperatures drop I will be able to do all of the work I need to do on my Fit.. I have told my wife that I am going to need to get a more comfortable car or maybe take my Safari cargo van off of the jack stands, put some Volvo seats in it and finish the performance mods that I started on it.....
DSM, I hope you sell the car, I would have tried to get it put I have 3 cars to get rid of before thinking of getting a new one. There where a lot of cool cars at the show yesterday. If I knew about it sooner I would have told you and it would have been a place to sell it quickly. I made a walk around and stayed a few hours but left early, Met Klasse Act but it was too loud and Hot to say put.
Edit: Had a great time and looking forward to next year. Hope to have my oldest sons car done by then but would have to trailer it.
Edit: Had a great time and looking forward to next year. Hope to have my oldest sons car done by then but would have to trailer it.
Hey you should join me for a few highway pulls before I let her go. I had a few friends at the show but I was at the beach swimming with the GF, her mom and my dad now that hes getting better (albeit slowly..)
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,304
From: Illinois
I had to turn down my son driving the car back to the owner, I am not into going fast as I once was. Driving in a 12 second car is a little too fast for my old age. My driving is at truck speed and that is fast enough for me.