"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...d-rotor-s.html

A simple set of calipers (the measuring kind) and/or a run out gauge in the toolbox will put this myth to rest.

 

Claymore,
I am laughing you out of here. If you are riding your brakes on the street for that long and can warp rotors you need to pull over, get out of your car, close the door, lock it the door, then throw the keys as far as you can. You should never again set foot behind the wheel of ANY car.

I have many miles behind the wheel of a BMW 540i on the track. At 4400 lbs is is not exactly the lightest track car. I have done much research on this subject over a few years so my info comes form many companies "in the know" It took me a while to finally dial in the brake pads and one off fabricated brake cooling channel to keep those brakes under control. With the stock pads I would heat them up in a heart beat and would get major brake "warpage" and brake fade. Not long into the track session the brakes would feel warped, not a pretty feeling when you are hauling a car down at the end of a long streight for a tight corner. Between track periods, and with proper cooling before leaving the track the brakes would return close to normal.

Then I put on some racing brake pads that could withstand very high temps. This cured the "warped" feeling I would get but with high temps comes brake fade. That was cured by my fabricated cooling channels, directing extra air to the rotor area. And some racing brake fluid that takes high temps well.

My whole point is that I got my rotors hot enough to fry a steak -- well done several times a day. Hotter than you will ever get your rotors on the street. While I started out having "warped" rotors I could cure that EACH TIME by doing my prescribed pad bed in procedure mentioned in my above response in this topic. The pads never warped, just the uneven pad transfer to the rotors, though in my case it was more of a smear. Again, it is HIGHLY unlikely anyone would actually truely warp rotors.

I am not saying it could never happen. Cheap rotor material, faulty caliper that is not releasing or the like. But not from normal or even heavy street use. If you did happen to park your car with really hot rotors the worst you would do is to get a thick pad transfer onto the rotor right in that spot, giving the appearance of warped rotors. To the untrained (IE: you, Claymore) it would appear teh rotors are warped... Yes, resurfacing the rotors will also true up the rotors. But why go thru that hastle when all you have to do is rebed them.

So if you, Claymore, want to be dumb to this issue be my guest. I am sure the other readers of this forum have more than enough of a brain and will learn something here. Again, if you are using your brakes so much as to heat them up, stop using them for a mile or so to let them cool down. That alone will solve 95% of uneven pad transfer. Otherwise a rebed procedure is all that is needed. Though something tells me you will be making many trips to the dealer to fix your "warped" rotors. Oh, thats right, you have to find your keys first!

 

Well another genus that can't read and comprehend a post and proceeds to put their foot in their mouth. If you had read and comprehended you will notice that what I said was" I have warped rotors in the course of ONE HIGH SPEED CHASE....... most people I know would logically assume that a police car was involved and one can not stop the car and let the brakes "cool down".

In my part of the country it is so far between police officers that chases (or police vs violator attempts to stop fleeing felon to make arrest for you people that have reading and comprehension problems) last as long as an hour.

So Mr "I assume everything" try driving and braking a 4,050 lbs vehicle at speeds of 115-120mph over winding country roads for an hour and severe braking to avoid maneuvering by the evading felon and the brakes get hot enough to glow and WILL WARP with no other underlying causes except for extreme temperature for extended periods. If your not convinced just go to the quartermaster of your State Police and look at the pile of rotors thrown away behind the building because they WERE WARPED and multiple turnings.

Or better yet go look behind some dealership at the pile of rotors thrown out behind the shop I guess you think they threw those all away because of pad transfer... man you are dreaming.

Just go ask a REAL mechanic and like I said he will laugh your internet keyboard right out of the lot and will have a great laugh with all his mechanic friends that some internet cowboy thinks rotor don't "Really" warp.

It appears that you are the one with no formal training to make those kinds of downright silly statements. Again to see for yourself do like I said and go to a brake shop and watch and learn.

And for your further edification I graduated first in my class from a 4 year mechanics training school and have been a line mechanic for a factory new car dealership, and have seen, measured, and turned more rotors that you will see in your lifetime. All you are is a keyboard mechanic making INCORRECT ASSUMPTIONS based on some article you have read on the internet or your wouldn't be making ludicrous statements like rotors don't warp .....what a dreamer.

Like spule4 said that was right on the money a simple tool like a dial indicator will show you just how wrong your dream really is if you knew how to use one....

And this whopper:
"The pads never warped, just the uneven pad transfer to the rotors, though in my case it was more of a smear. Again, it is HIGHLY unlikely anyone would actually truely warp rotors".

For someone trying to convince people that you really really know what you are taking about whoppers like this give you away NO ONE has ever said one word about PADS WARPING ...... where did you come up with that one????

And your silly statement shows that you have never turned a rotor in your life or you would already know you can watch the METAL coming off the rotor in differing amounts in differing sections showing CLEARLY that the rotor is warped and the METAL is not some mysterious substance appearing on the rotor magically making it feel out of true.

And if your still not convinced go to the warped rotor thread and read the link to the Ford brake warped rotor investigation that I posted and their research on this subject AND FORD MOTOR COMPANY CONCLUSION THAT DISC BRAKE ROTORS DO INDEED GO OUT OF TRUE ON RUN OUT DUE TO A DEFORMED ROTOR SURFACE. And if you still don't believe go post a note to FORD and inform them of your brilliant "research" and I'm sure they will immediately fire all their engineers involved in this warped rotor investigation and hire you on in their place. Be sure and link them to this page so they can be overwhelmed by your brilliance.

 

true....but its weird i got my my 08' fit like 4 months ago and it already needed brakes,discs and shit
is it me or just the car?

 

it happened to me too..but thats becuase i think i speed and stop to much lol.but idk im in line to get my third set of brakes pretty soon..lloll

 

Here is some possibly helpful information. I just got rid of my Fit but I found this out right before I turned the car in. I took the Fit to a brake guy that my dad knows to see if he could give any insight on the warped discs. He told me that most small cars are known for getting warped front brake discs due to the fact that most small cars have a front disc/rear drum setup. There is just too much stress being put on the front discs in stop and go traffic and emergency stop situations. The rear drums offer little in stopping assistance. He told me to that switching to a vented front disc would help greatly with the warping by distributing the heat but wouldn't solve the problem completely. The only thing that would solve the problem would be a rear disc conversion (BIG DOLLARS). I am by far not a mechanic or brake expert but his advise did make sense to me. I'm just passing it along.

 

^aren't the fit's front rotors already vented? or are you talking about cross-drilled rotors?

in my opinion, front discs and rear drums are sufficient for a small car like the honda fit in everyday traffic. if you need performance braking power though, it's not enough.

 

Heck, my full size 1/2 ton 4x4 has front discs and rear drums. It's a 97 and I've only replaced the front rotors once. I have changed pads twice I believe. Never touched the rears except for adjustments, cleaning, etc.

I think with brakes, allot comes down to how you drive.

 

OK Claymore you Rocket Scientist. Per your instructions, I drove to damn near every garage/brake shop in a 15 mile radius. Spoke to many technicians at these shops. After talking to all of them, some of them I would not trust to put air in my tires. Many of them were informative of their experiences with "warped rotors". There were no piles of "warped rotors" behind ANY of the shops. Actually, there were no "warped rotors" behind ANY of these shops. Nor in ANY of their dumpsters, garbage cans, under their sofas or buried in any hole in the ground.

What I did learn was nothing short of interesting. There seems to be a vast difference in quality. Brembo for instance, has manufacturing plants around the world. You would think that getting a Brembo rotor would get you a quality piece. Not so. The ones made in Europe appear to be of high quality. The ones made in Mexico (NOT bashing Mexicans!) seem to be of a questionable quality. Many of these shops, the better ones anyhow, will put a BRAND NEW ROTOR on a lathe and check for runout. Seems the Mexican rotors are notorious for being OUT OF TRUE right out of the box and need truing. If they are installed without doing this, they start out OK but within a short time are prone to SMEAR, APPEARING to be WARPED. Which they technically were, right out of the box, new! As long as the shop made sure the rotors were true/turning them if necessary, they don't see the customers coming back with "warped rotors".

As far as all the police "warped rotors" you are referring to, I work with many in my part time National Guard unit. I asked them to ask around where they work as police. None of them had ever had any issues with "warped rotors". Several even asked their respective barracks maintenance mechanics. They said they rarely get any "warped rotors". The rare occasion they did see one could be traced back to a failed caliper (not fully releasing) or even more rare would be from the brakes being ridden really hard (for what ever reason) then the car coming to a stop without a brake cool down period, which often happens in police work.

Last, Claymore, I went to a local race car garage that maintains, race preps many a car for local and national competition. Many of the races are endurance events. They are race cars, Claymore. If they don't see repeated heavy use to really heat up the rotors then I don't know what to tell you. Their experience mirrors what the police maintainers had. The occasional failed caliper or heavy use without proper cool down was their only "warped rotor" issue. Then again they do check the rotors for being in true before they install them, new or otherwise.

So there you have it Claymore. I did my "real world" research for you. Perhaps you may see this issue for what it is. I doubt it though. From your past comments I don't think you have it in you. You are not married to your sister are you, Claymore? Perhaps you are the product of a brother/sister baby? Just a thought.

So I stand by my past observations on what is or is not a "warped rotor". What I am surprised to learn is that many rotors should be turned right out of the box. Seems like that would solve many of our rotor issues. That and cooling them properly if they have been warmed up to any degree. And if that was not the case and you think you may have "warped rotors" after heavy use that is most likely pad smear. And accomplishing my re-bed procedure that I have mentioned previously SHOULD cure your "warped rotors".

Is that your sister calling you Claymore?

 

Just picked my Fit S about 4 hours ago. I noticed this issue with a friends car also. What is that clunking sound when going over bumps? Is it the tires?
Been with Subaru for 5 years, just moved to toyota, and bought a honda.
Salesman took a picture of me with my Toyota uniform, and hat right before I drove away. He said he couldnt wait to show his customers the pic!

 

Aw poor baby got his knickers in a twist and has to resort to name calling. I stand by any and all of my statements. What about the results from the Ford study forget that ??

 

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml





The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System

by Carroll Smith

Myth # 1 – BRAKE JUDDER AND VIBRATION IS CAUSED BY DISCS THAT HAVE BEEN WARPED FROM EXESSIVE HEAT.


The term "warped brake disc" has been in common use in motor racing for decades. When a driver reports a vibration under hard braking, inexperienced crews, after checking for (and not finding) cracks often attribute the vibration to "warped discs". They then measure the disc thickness in various places, find significant variation and the diagnosis is cast in stone.
When disc brakes for high performance cars arrived on the scene we began to hear of "warped brake discs" on road going cars, with the same analyses and diagnoses. Typically, the discs are resurfaced to cure the problem and, equally typically, after a relatively short time the roughness or vibration comes back. Brake roughness has caused a significant number of cars to be bought back by their manufacturers under the "lemon laws". This has been going on for decades now - and, like most things that we have cast in stone, the diagnoses are wrong.
With one qualifier, presuming that the hub and wheel flange are flat and in good condition and that the wheel bolts or hat mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly and tightened uniformly and in the correct order to the recommended torque specification, in more than 40 years of professional racing, including the Shelby/Ford GT 40s – one of the most intense brake development program in history - I have never seen a warped brake disc. I have seen lots of cracked discs, (FIGURE 1) discs that had turned into shallow cones at operating temperature because they were mounted rigidly to their attachment bells or top hats, (FIGURE 2) a few where the friction surface had collapsed in the area between straight radial interior vanes, (FIGURE 3) and an untold number of discs with pad material unevenly deposited on the friction surfaces - sometimes visible and more often not. (FIGURE 4)
In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.

There's more at the link, if you want to read.

 

Was that towards me?
Your rediculous rant about rotors is getting boring. Get them crioed and have a nice day. Ide like to see them do a sample test at the autocross for H stock..

 

Aw poor baby got his knickers in a twist and has to resort to name calling. I stand by any and all of my statements. What about the results from the Ford study forget that ??
__________________
DOOM DOOM BOOM I'm coming for YOU

As you see Claymore, there is a logical explanation for your "warped" rotors. Thank you Cojaro!! There is much more to that story as you eluded to. Readers please chase down that article at StopTech.com(?). I think a little reading lesson is in store for Claymore. And a fire extinguisher, he just went BOOM! just like his avtar! Of course a humble apology would be in order. If you feel man enough to do so. I doubt it. In any case, any one subscribing to this thread has learned a bit about "warped" rotors. Actually, I have Claymore to thank for that. If he was not so adamant about them actually being "warped" we would have been long past here. So again readers, re-bed those rotors before scrapping them as "warped". Yes, even you Claymore. We ALL have room to learn. I hope I have the privilege some day to buy you a beer.

 

I the discussion of to warp or not, you are leaving out the most common cause of warped rotors; that being heavy handed, poorly trained MECHANICS (technicians use proper sequence and torque) that use improper torque techniques, mostly when rotating tires.

Saw it a lot in my years as a Cadillac master tech, most often on FWD vehicles, and yes, there used to be a pile out next to the dumpster. It was not too big because the MECHANICS that did that sort of thing didn't last long at a luxury car dealership.

With high heat and sudden cooling, you can get hard spots that quickly turn into a warped surface. Discs are dead soft and sudden cooling from high head can change the crystalline structure of the metal.

Now, yall go play and be nice.

 

No need for an apology. If you had ever worked as a mechanic you would already know how wrong you are. You think the millions of places that have purchased brake rotor lathes are all so stupid that they would waste all that money purchasing something that had no use ... get real. If you think it's just brake pad slime causing the condition try dropping a magnet into the shavings you get while turning a rotor hummmm funny if it was just brake pad slime that magnet would not be covered in all those cuttings looks like rocksnap is now trying to say he knows more than the laws of nature on magnetic attraction he should really write a scientific paper on how he gets pad pad slime to stick to a magnet.

Looks like you should go tell them all that they should just sell all the brake rotor lathes because they are not necessary according to you. And to all those REAL mechanics out there turning rotors right now rocksnap thinks you should just STOP RIGHT NOW because rotors never warp.... get real.

And you poor vehicle manufacturers wow isn't it just great you call all stop paying to have your companies rotors replaced or turned because some internet mechanic had declared he knows more that all your engineers about how your products work. I suggest that you fire all those stupid inspectors you send out to verify warranty repairs they have been ripping you off by saying that rotors warp but now we know rocksnap said they are all wrong and there is no need to pay out all those millions of dollars for warranty claims because rocksnap THINKS that rotors don't warp.

I think that all those dealers should ban together and start a class action lawsuit against the makers and salesmen selling brake rotor lathes for selling them an unnecessary product after all rocksnap thinks that they have all been duded yea that's right duped into buying a product that is not necessary and that they wasted their money on because rocksnap knows better than all of them rotors don't warp. Just think of all the money you could make testifying as an expert witness in all those trials you would make a fortune.... yea right.

Yea right I think I will just stick to the knowledge gained at mechanics school and ACTUALLY working as a mechanic and ACTUALLY measured and turned a couple hundred rotors.

I really really think you should report immediately to all the car manufactures that you think they are all incorrect and you know better than them and all the collective engineering teams from all the vehicle manufacturers and think of the money that could be saved by not doing any replacement rotors for warping just think of the millions that could be saved they would all offer you a job and get rid of their engineering teams so you could investigate other common warranty problems and give them the benefit of you grand wisdom on the subjects of anything and all automotive knowledge bases.

Hey I just had a brilliant thought you could open a school and teach your theory you would just put all the other established schools out of business because they are still teaching how to turn rotors and that rotors do warp and how to measure that out of true but hey they can all stop that now because rocksnap knows better than all of them put together after all he asked a few questions and had other people ask somebody else a few questions and everybody knows that is a real scientific method for proving your advanced knowledge theories he must be a genius and should be teaching his advanced method of "bedding his brakes" and save the world millions of dollars by throwing away all the brake lathes in the world because he THINKS brake rotors don't warp.... yea right get real.

 

I don't understand how someone can turn a discussion on whether or not rotors warp into a personal attack. That's just wrong. Argue your stand on the issue and don't hit below the belt, regardless what others may do. If you hit below the belt in retaliation, then you're just as low as those who hit you.

 

Perhaps you had better go back and read post # 309 and see who is making the attacks.... but I'm sure you are just going to ignore that and continue showing your bias.

 

And you totally missed my point...

And what bias? Whom am I favoring over the other?


I'd much rather read a back-n-forth argument on warped rotors than all of this bickering. Just quit it and stay on topic (that goes to everyone)

 

Just had the check engine light come on yesterday. I drove it to the dealer and diagnostic code came back that it was the thermostat.

I'm not sure it it's the thermostat itself or the signa itl sends to the ecu, but they're going to put in a new one today.

The car is running fine, but it has seemed to take longer than usual for the cold light to come off in the past month or so - but since I'm in Minnesota it's hard to gauge if that's normal or not . The light has never come on before though.....

I'm guessing it's getting stuck open or at least slow to close. Just a data point for y'all.